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  Reply # 306505 12-Mar-2010 09:59
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exportgoldman:
freitasm:  I don't think they will put only their money into this. They have to raise capital - they don't have $900 million dollars available at their fingertips. So at some stage they have factored the capital cost - and they will have to get that money back. This is going to be just one little bit of the total cost for this initiative.



From memory Southern Cross Cable paid off it's capital outlay in some ridiculous amount of time like 9 months or something (I should did up the actual time instead of offering inaccurate figures :) but it was well well worth it for Telecom and the other investors in SCC.




Didn't the recent upgrades of the SCC cable allow something like a 75% drop in costs to ISP's ? This was about a year ago ... I'm still waiting for a corresponding drop in my ISP costs ...




My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government




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  Reply # 306508 12-Mar-2010 10:08
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IIRC, when an ISP sign up for the SCC they pay in advance. So even if prices came down, your ISP might be stuck for a while.




 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 306521 12-Mar-2010 10:48
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if it weren't for some very successful people behind it (Stephen Tindall, Sam Morgan, Rod Drury etc) I would be very cynical about this.

I am very hopeful this gets going, as some competition and more pipes to the USA are vital to getting the next generation of services properly to NZ. It seems right now that international capacity is a big bottleneck for us. Hopefully this will help alleviate this.

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  Reply # 306578 12-Mar-2010 12:35
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SepticSceptic:

Didn't the recent upgrades of the SCC cable allow something like a 75% drop in costs to ISP's ? This was about a year ago ... I'm still waiting for a corresponding drop in my ISP costs ...


Sure if you ignore the all the other costs ISP's have to cover..

- National backhaul/bandwidth cost (almost more expensive than international transit, which is retarded)
- Port cost at the exchange/cabient
- Staff costs
- Marketing costs
- Equipment and infrastructure costs
- Return on investment for owners/investors (profit margin)
- etc

Staff costs for one almost never go down only up...

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  Reply # 306586 12-Mar-2010 13:04
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Ragnor:
SepticSceptic:

Didn't the recent upgrades of the SCC cable allow something like a 75% drop in costs to ISP's ? This was about a year ago ... I'm still waiting for a corresponding drop in my ISP costs ...


Sure if you ignore the all the other costs ISP's have to cover..

- National backhaul/bandwidth cost (almost more expensive than international transit, which is retarded)
- Port cost at the exchange/cabient
- Staff costs
- Marketing costs
- Equipment and infrastructure costs
- Return on investment for owners/investors (profit margin)
- etc

Staff costs for one almost never go down only up...


Most of those would have remained the same, if not reduced...

Staff Costs - maybe increased, but there have been quite a few lay-offs and outsourcing
marketing Costs - haven't seen much in the way of 2nd tier ISP's advertising, certainly doesn't seem to have increased over previous levels when everyone was scarmbling to get a bite of the subscriber pie.
Equipment and Infrastructure - once the initial roll out has been done and amortized, the rest is incremental based on new users. And the cost of equipment should be coming down.
ROI- yep, that's about where it goes up .....




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  Reply # 306591 12-Mar-2010 13:13
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exportgoldman:
I'm all for a second (and third :) cable, and the cable going to the USA as well - but I wonder why it's required to go to the USA, you would think the cheaper option would be just to run a cable to Australia, they have a quite good connectivity to the internet backbones


exportgoldman:
I'm loving the focus on latency, it would make things like the Amazon EC2 cloud usable for latency sensitive applications


can't really focus on latency if you route through several hops via australia..... only way to attack latency is to reduce the number of routers and decrease the transmission distance.




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  Reply # 306597 12-Mar-2010 13:18
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one comment i saw recently was that it cost more to send data AKL to WLG than it did AKL - LAX. i dont think the fat pipe overseas is the only barrier to unlimited internet that people seem to think it is. the SCC has upgraded capacity several times over the years, and dropped its costs too.

another point i saw was that having a second cable would mean more redundancy into NZ and would make it more viable as a centre for hosting datacenters, callcenters etc.

it also means that ISPs (or other orgs) could buy bandwidth off of two providers to introduce their own network path redundancy and increase availability




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  Reply # 306700 12-Mar-2010 17:40
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PhantomSS:
While you might be right about that, the whole idea is a "fibre rollout to the home" which Vector has been doing for some time,  and is currently in the process of trying to get the Government to pay for it.


What? What do Vector and FTTH have to do with this?


PhantomSS:
It's not like we are going to have a 12TB fibre cable that is going to be coming to the exchange - cabinet or straight to our homes on the current copper pairs is it.


Um, so? OK, I'm going to write you off as a troll, because this is just nonsensical. Especially after seeing one of your other posts about the government filter.

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  Reply # 306789 12-Mar-2010 23:01
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I believe 3 things
 - Making NZ an international telehousing centre would be awesome for both our economy and our connectivity
 - Another cable will help this quite well
 - WINZ has an army of unemployed insurance call centre workers ready to be trained up for large international companies.




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  Reply # 306855 13-Mar-2010 09:49
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How come Telecom hasn't invested in a new cable in the last 10 years, it's not like they haven't been making massive profits off NZ households, they could have easily paid for a new cable? I'm blaming Teressa G.

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  Reply # 306858 13-Mar-2010 10:18
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gareth279: How come Telecom hasn't invested in a new cable in the last 10 years, it's not like they haven't been making massive profits off NZ households, they could have easily paid for a new cable? I'm blaming Teressa G.

Telecom have no need to invest in a new cable, because the existing one is still not operating at its full capacity.  This has been part of a deliberate strategy to keep prices high for as long as possible, because so far, they have been the only game in town.

If/when this new cable is up and running, Telecom will have to change their game plan to remain competitive.  A good dose of competition is what's needed to deal to the SCC monopoly, and here's hoping it comes to fruition.





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  Reply # 306867 13-Mar-2010 11:09
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gareth279: How come Telecom hasn't invested in a new cable in the last 10 years, it's not like they haven't been making massive profits off NZ households, they could have easily paid for a new cable? I'm blaming Teressa G.


Telecom have invested in upgrading the Southern Cross cable on numerous occasions and it's capacity now (from memory) is around 4x what it was at launch. The capability is also still there to increase this by at least another 200% or 300% easily.

There are no capacity issues with the cable, it's merely one of a) price and b) ISP's who are simply unwilling to invest in capacity that will be used for a few hours per day and remain unused throughout the rest of the day. This is one of the reasons we have seen a rise in offpeak pricing.


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  Reply # 306897 13-Mar-2010 14:38
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There are no capacity issues with the cable, it's merely one of a) price and b) ISP's who are simply unwilling to invest in capacity that will be used for a few hours per day and remain unused throughout the rest of the day. This is one of the reasons we have seen a rise in offpeak pricing.



Thats what they want to fix:

Mark Rushworth commented: “ a major boost in international capacity is needed to fix the 7pm bottleneck"

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  Reply # 306901 13-Mar-2010 14:50
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Capacity aside, what would happen if the SC cable was damaged?

It seems to be the NZ mentality, it'll be right, so we just delay building a second cable.

In order to ensure reliabilty some things require a think big mentality, power, roading and now IT infrastructure. I'm very pleased that these guys have stepped up, one could argue that network infrastructure is now more important than our national road network. For NZ to improve economically we need to grow our technology sector.

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  Reply # 306902 13-Mar-2010 15:04
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gareth279: Capacity aside, what would happen if the SC cable was damaged?

It seems to be the NZ mentality, it'll be right, so we just delay building a second cable.

In order to ensure reliabilty some things require a think big mentality, power, roading and now IT infrastructure. I'm very pleased that these guys have stepped up, one could argue that network infrastructure is now more important than our national road network. For NZ to improve economically we need to grow our technology sector.


SCC has full redundancy due to it's triple ring architecture. Cable cuts have occured in the past and have simply resuled in a cut back in capacity for several days until the issue has been fixed.




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