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  Reply # 311151 25-Mar-2010 09:44
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sbiddle: It's also worth noting that with the move to VoIP here there is no guarantee of any modem based devices working over VoIP lines. If you're in an area that's already got fibre then any current devices that use a modem such as MySky, a residential alarm or medical alarms are not guaranteed to work.



Now we are back to Oct when this project first surfaced :-)

Go Hawks!
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  Reply # 311421 25-Mar-2010 19:51
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verakot: 
wazzageek, thanks, this is very useful. Do you have any proof - such as manual for example, for a PBX system, that shows that the escape digit can be programmed to any number from a 1 to a 9?
Also in your experience, how often does it happen (%)?

Re VoIP: Are you saying there could be 2 digit escape to outside line?


Verakot - the point I was trying to impress was that you may experience occasions when things have been configured in such a way that doesn't conform to the "normal".  

As to the percentage wise ... I just don't know - very low.
 



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  Reply # 321528 22-Apr-2010 07:21
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LennonNZ: Give the installer/customer the option of choosing the "pre-digit(s)" before dialing as there are many types of PABX's or alike. This is pretty standard for most things such as alarm system, EFTPOS, sky decoders in their set up.

It could be 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 or 0- or anything depending on the setup of someone's PABX.



In your experience, what is the percentage of PBX systems that use other than a '9' as a dial-out digit?
 



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  Reply # 321531 22-Apr-2010 07:25
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grant_k: 

PBXs that I have encountered use a 1 or 9 prefix to get an outside line.  I believe there are others that use a 0, but I have never seen 8 used.



Grant, in your experience, what is the percentage of PBXs that use a 1 vs a 9 prefix? 
Thanks.. 

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  Reply # 321558 22-Apr-2010 08:36
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verakot:
grant_k: 

PBXs that I have encountered use a 1 or 9 prefix to get an outside line.  I believe there are others that use a 0, but I have never seen 8 used.



Grant, in your experience, what is the percentage of PBXs that use a 1 vs a 9 prefix? 

Thanks.. 


If they are installed by a X NZPO tech or Cogent then they are usually dial 1 for the outside line.  Otherwise the international code of Dial 9 is used unless it's sold out of Australia and they sometime  insist on the Australian standard of Dial 0 for a trunk and dial 9 for the operator.




Regards,

Old3eyes




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  Reply # 321903 23-Apr-2010 07:27
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old3eyes:
verakot:
grant_k: 

PBXs that I have encountered use a 1 or 9 prefix to get an outside line.  I believe there are others that use a 0, but I have never seen 8 used.



Grant, in your experience, what is the percentage of PBXs that use a 1 vs a 9 prefix? 

Thanks.. 


If they are installed by a X NZPO tech or Cogent then they are usually dial 1 for the outside line.  Otherwise the international code of Dial 9 is used unless it's sold out of Australia and they sometime  insist on the Australian standard of Dial 0 for a trunk and dial 9 for the operator.


Understood. Still as a gross estimate, what is the percentage of PBXs that use a dial-out digit other than a'9' installed in New Zelaland as a whole? 

Thanks! 

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  Reply # 321915 23-Apr-2010 07:50
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As I PMed you.. the % makes no difference.. Just allow the person installing/using to choose any digit(s) for the pre-dial and then you can just let this non-issue go away. You've been going on and on about this for too long.



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  Reply # 321918 23-Apr-2010 08:01
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LennonNZ: As I PMed you.. the % makes no difference.. Just allow the person installing/using to choose any digit(s) for the pre-dial and then you can just let this non-issue go away. You've been going on and on about this for too long.


It makes a huge difference as of right now since the product is going to be released really soon so we cannot make changes to the software at this point. We will make updates later on to accommodate the PBX differences.

I do not understand why is it so difficult for you guys to answer a simple question: in your experience, what is the percentage of PBXs that are ALREADY setup with a dial-out digit other than a '9'??

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  Reply # 321936 23-Apr-2010 08:53
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I would stick with the international standard of dial 9. The only countries that I have seen using something other than that are NZ ans AU and as I said earlier in NZ it depends who installs the systems as what dial code is used. My defaults use dial 9 but some of our installers use dial 1 or 0 even heard of the hotel that used dial 8 as a trunk access code..  The main percentage in NZ would be dial 1  as that was the NZPO standard  because the Fwits back in the 1950s  decided Wellington was reverse dial so the rest of NZ will be the same..




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  Reply # 321945 23-Apr-2010 09:03
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verakot:
LennonNZ: As I PMed you.. the % makes no difference.. Just allow the person installing/using to choose any digit(s) for the pre-dial and then you can just let this non-issue go away. You've been going on and on about this for too long.


It makes a huge difference as of right now since the product is going to be released really soon so we cannot make changes to the software at this point. We will make updates later on to accommodate the PBX differences.

I do not understand why is it so difficult for you guys to answer a simple question: in your experience, what is the percentage of PBXs that are ALREADY setup with a dial-out digit other than a '9'??


There is no simple answer to this question and the answer is going to depend entirely on who you ask. Because there is no standard people can use whatever predigit they want.

From my experience I'd say 1 would be by far the most common in NZ. As old3eyes has pointed out he uses 9 so it proves that the answer will differ.

Telecom NZ's new PTC for SIP trunking specifies that 1 must be used as the predigit for all outbound calls and that this 1 must also be passed in the SIP signalling. You can conclude from this that 1 will become a lot more common, at least for products that will be connected via Telecom SIP trunks in the future.

As I have mentioned before if you want concrete answers you really need to be working with Telecom authorised PTC testing labs who could be answering all of these questions for you rather than making assumptions based upon what people like us are saying.


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  Reply # 321964 23-Apr-2010 09:37
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sbiddle: There is no simple answer to this question and the answer is going to depend entirely on who you ask. Because there is no standard people can use whatever predigit they want.

From my experience I'd say 1 would be by far the most common in NZ. As old3eyes has pointed out he uses 9 so it proves that the answer will differ.

As I have mentioned before if you want concrete answers you really need to be working with Telecom authorised PTC testing labs who could be answering all of these questions for you rather than making assumptions based upon what people like us are saying.



I don't think any one individual would have have sufficient overview of all installations to give absolute percentages.

I would disagree with the assumption that a test lab would be more authoritive . Testing labs are good at testing, some would have very little experience in the actual use of the equipment. They test to a schedule.

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  Reply # 321965 23-Apr-2010 09:42
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Bung:
sbiddle: There is no simple answer to this question and the answer is going to depend entirely on who you ask. Because there is no standard people can use whatever predigit they want.

From my experience I'd say 1 would be by far the most common in NZ. As old3eyes has pointed out he uses 9 so it proves that the answer will differ.

As I have mentioned before if you want concrete answers you really need to be working with Telecom authorised PTC testing labs who could be answering all of these questions for you rather than making assumptions based upon what people like us are saying.



I don't think any one individual would have have sufficient overview of all installations to give absolute percentages.

I would disagree with the assumption that a test lab would be more authoritive . Testing labs are good at testing, some would have very little experience in the actual use of the equipment. They test to a schedule.


Not so much on this issue as there is no correct answer, but certainly many of the other questions that have been discussed both here and in PM's




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  Reply # 321974 23-Apr-2010 09:54
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Bung:
sbiddle: There is no simple answer to this question and the answer is going to depend entirely on who you ask. Because there is no standard people can use whatever predigit they want.

From my experience I'd say 1 would be by far the most common in NZ. As old3eyes has pointed out he uses 9 so it proves that the answer will differ.

As I have mentioned before if you want concrete answers you really need to be working with Telecom authorised PTC testing labs who could be answering all of these questions for you rather than making assumptions based upon what people like us are saying.



I don't think any one individual would have have sufficient overview of all installations to give absolute percentages.

I would disagree with the assumption that a test lab would be more authoritive . Testing labs are good at testing, some would have very little experience in the actual use of the equipment. They test to a schedule.


I just want to get a rough estimate. It is 50/50? 60/40? 90/10, 99/1? If you guys installing these systems, you would probably tell me that it could be X out of 10 that the number is different from a  '9'. 

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  Reply # 321979 23-Apr-2010 10:02
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sbiddle:
Bung:
sbiddle: There is no simple answer to this question and the answer is going to depend entirely on who you ask. Because there is no standard people can use whatever predigit they want.

From my experience I'd say 1 would be by far the most common in NZ. As old3eyes has pointed out he uses 9 so it proves that the answer will differ.

As I have mentioned before if you want concrete answers you really need to be working with Telecom authorised PTC testing labs who could be answering all of these questions for you rather than making assumptions based upon what people like us are saying.



I don't think any one individual would have have sufficient overview of all installations to give absolute percentages.

I would disagree with the assumption that a test lab would be more authoritive . Testing labs are good at testing, some would have very little experience in the actual use of the equipment. They test to a schedule.


Not so much on this issue as there is no correct answer, but certainly many of the other questions that have been discussed both here and in PM's



The background of some of the PTC test labs is in electrical testing. Their knowledge of NZ telecommunications may not extend further than the information in Telcom/Chorus test schedules or network advisory documents. Without going back to their clients they wouldn't know for example that some for some perverse reason don't have standardised installations.

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  Reply # 321985 23-Apr-2010 10:20
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verakot:

I just want to get a rough estimate. It is 50/50? 60/40? 90/10, 99/1? If you guys installing these systems, you would probably tell me that it could be X out of 10 that the number is different from a  '9'. 


If you're so keen on getting a percentage figure, why not pay for some market research to be done. That would give you a concrete answer. 

Personally, I think the actual percentages of 1 vs 9 in use is irrelevant to your situation. What matters more is probably what people prefer to use now. Just make a decision and live with it.





kind regards Andrew TD

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