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  Reply # 314066 1-Apr-2010 23:27
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Screeb:
Cymro:
VDSL2 will give speeds up to 50Mbps down, for over 50% of New Zealanders by the end of 2011.


"Up to" 50Mbps. Yeah, great. One person who lives in the exchange gets 50Mbps, and everyone else gets 20Mbps if they're lucky.


expect your plan prices to more than double for the same amount of data you currently get


Oh really? Say, got any figures to back that up? No? And what's your basis? We're paying $110/mo for 50GB. So that'll be $220 for 50GB in 8 years on fibre then? Oh, ok. Funny that you mention only speed when talking about VDSL2, then switch to data cap and price when talking about fibre. Anyway, I guess you must be right. I feel sorry for Vector who will of course lose a lot of money since they want to offer services that people obviously don't want. But that's all part of their insidious plan, right?


I live right next to the main exchange (about 50m max), but looks like over 200m of wire connecting me within the buildings. So VDSL is only going to be fast if they put the DSLAM in the basement of my own building to reduce cabling distance. Not that I would mind if the 18 megs I'm already getting could improve the slow international throughput. Waiting for another international cable!




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 314098 2-Apr-2010 09:11
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My line is fine (2.0/0.0 US/DS attenuation), sync rate is maximum possible. You're right, the issue is with the ISP, but I would consider the ISP to be part of the broadband infrastructure.


Not quite, the basic and essential infrastructure in this is the copper network, DSLAM network and its fibre interconnectedness to the point of delivery to/from each ISP.

In your case the issue is not with any of the above but your ISPs ability to deliver to the handover, there is competition at this point with dozens of options, you just happen to have chosen the worst option on the block, I recommend you change.

Cyril

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  Reply # 314110 2-Apr-2010 10:43
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webwat:
I live right next to the main exchange (about 50m max), but looks like over 200m of wire connecting me within the buildings. So VDSL is only going to be fast if they put the DSLAM in the basement of my own building to reduce cabling distance. Not that I would mind if the 18 megs I'm already getting could improve the slow international throughput. Waiting for another international cable!


From memory similar lines got about 45 Mbps.

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  Reply # 314919 5-Apr-2010 11:44
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Why is everyone so nuts over the speed (apart from upload <3), our downstream speeds are kind of rad. There is no point getting 3-45MBPS with monthly bandwidth of 1-80GB for such excessive prices. We need unlimited or 500gb-1tb of monthly data atleast, then we can enjoy these speeds for longer then a couple of days.

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  Reply # 314920 5-Apr-2010 11:50
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Krisando: Why is everyone so nuts over the speed (apart from upload <3), our downstream speeds are kind of rad. There is no point getting 3-45MBPS with monthly bandwidth of 1-80GB for such excessive prices. We need unlimited or 500gb-1tb of monthly data atleast, then we can enjoy these speeds for longer then a couple of days.


No way you'd need 500-1tb, unless you live in a student flat and download lots of "linux isos" or something.

I think ~10gb would be fine for the average punter and probably 20-100gb "free" for the more tech savy of us would be fine.

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  Reply # 314953 5-Apr-2010 14:21
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10GB fine for the average punter? Don't think 10GB is big enough at all once new services start being pushed because it is now possible with the faster service 10GB is trivial.

Might be fine now just, but going by the number of devices that are now getting connected to the internet 10GB for your average home user is not enough.

I struggle to keep it under 20GB and I don't really download much these days. Windows updates, 2 game demo's, web browsing, streaming, linux updates help use my cap.

Plus with soon to be 3 people on the net in our house 20GB is starting to look crazy small.

mum + dad + son.... which I would say is pretty average house hold.

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  Reply # 314985 5-Apr-2010 15:42
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Lurch: 10GB fine for the average punter? Don't think 10GB is big enough at all once new services start being pushed because it is now possible with the faster service 10GB is trivial.

Might be fine now just, but going by the number of devices that are now getting connected to the internet 10GB for your average home user is not enough.

I struggle to keep it under 20GB and I don't really download much these days. Windows updates, 2 game demo's, web browsing, streaming, linux updates help use my cap.

Plus with soon to be 3 people on the net in our house 20GB is starting to look crazy small.

mum + dad + son.... which I would say is pretty average house hold.

average usage in NZ is about 3GB at the moment,  and this is pretty consistent with global usage too.
check this out.  It's the FAQ prepared by comcast when they intoduced theiur 250GB limits.


http://security.comcast.net/get-help/faq-full.aspx?guid=00a2862a-33e2-474f-8d1f-c6dcc5ef02a9


What is normal or typical use?
Data usage changes over time as our customers use the Internet and the services and applications available for it. Currently, the median data usage by Comcast High-Speed Internet customers is approximately 2 - 4GB each month (these numbers may vary on a monthly basis). This reflects typical residential use of the service for purposes such as sending and receiving e-mail, surfing the Internet, and watching streaming video.

 

10-20GB is plenty for any residentail connection, excluding a few extreme outlier cases (like people who constantly download linux isos every day), and people using their connection for illegal purposes.

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  Reply # 315073 5-Apr-2010 19:27
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NonprayingMantis:
average usage in NZ is about 3GB at the moment,  and this is pretty consistent with global usage too.
check this out.  It's the FAQ prepared by comcast when they intoduced theiur 250GB limits.

http://security.comcast.net/get-help/faq-full.aspx?guid=00a2862a-33e2-474f-8d1f-c6dcc5ef02a9

What is normal or typical use?
Data usage changes over time as our customers use the Internet and the services and applications available for it. Currently, the median data usage by Comcast High-Speed Internet customers is approximately 2 - 4GB each month (these numbers may vary on a monthly basis). This reflects typical residential use of the service for purposes such as sending and receiving e-mail, surfing the Internet, and watching streaming video.

10-20GB is plenty for any residentail connection, excluding a few extreme outlier cases (like people who constantly download linux isos every day), and people using their connection for illegal purposes.


Median != mean. You can't really compare them. Anyway, either is a useless metric as there are so many people who just use the internet for email and light browsing. The average usage for more tech savvy people is much higher - and you don't have to be downloading "linux isos" to do that. I know this isn't really your point, you're just responding to what Lurch said directly, I just thought I'd mention it.

However, you're missing Lurch's point - he's talking about the future, with faster broadband ("Don't think 10GB is big enough at all once new services start being pushed because it is now possible with the faster service 10GB is trivial"), not the present.

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  Reply # 324145 28-Apr-2010 12:56
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Commerce Commission's Monitoring Report for 2009 quotes Akamai's State of the Internet report.

Its timely for this discussion. It shows NZ's average speed has hardly improved over the last 4 quarters and sits at ~3Mbps.
While thats not great reading at least we havent gone backwards - like Singapore from 4Mbps to 2.6Mbps or Australia from 2.5Mbps to 2Mbps.

And it shows that Japan (that bastion of high speed internet and FTTH) sits at an average of 7.5Mbps. Is this higher or lower than NZ public perception? I'm gonna guess lower.

One reason ComCom highlights for such low average speed plans is
"A possible reason for the apparent lack of demand (i.e., willingness to pay) for high speed broadband could be a lack of applications requiring high speeds."
It seems that the world is somewhat bereft of applications requiring high speeds??

And for those that dont bother to read the footnotes Akamai claim:
?in the network, third party testing?. Akamai measures speeds locally so they are not affected by international backhaul and also they are measured delivering a real service that is unlikely to be influenced by specific ISPs or users.

That means its not Southern Cross.

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  Reply # 324469 28-Apr-2010 23:22
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dimsim: So in 2000 we had 8mb/s ADSL in central auckland, so now a decade later in 2010 I wonder how many ppl can put their handsup and say truthfully that they get a steady 8mb/s??

I think the point Im trying to make is that the other copper technologies VDSL etc are just another patch and that if we are truely to progress here and set ourselves up for the shorterm future, fibre to the door is the best way forward.

Is this the way forward??


i agree on the fiber; but it may not be feasible fast enough. telcos have layed the copper to everywhere long ago. it takes years to do same with fiber. yes, sooner we start sooner it's done, no argument there. but until fiber is everywhere those with just copper deserve faster speeds.

while some sort of wireless could also be the future, i'd rather take a pipe that does not radiate so much.

and for the record. back in 95 i got my first leased line, initially 38k nokia baseband modems. then speeding it up with serial port hacks (Patton device) to 57.6k at 96. 97 it was 115.2k. got my first ADSL early 98 3M down one up. went to 2.3M SDSL (symmetric) 2000 which i upgraded to VDSL1 2003ish (16M/14M). it was full theoretical maximum speed from my home (finland) to new york, furthest exit point of my employers backbone (IP carrier) and pretty fast still beond that. worth to note it had no boosts over customer traffic, they all too had their wire's worth from cross the continent (flat rate, of course).

then 2006 i moved here and went back to mid 90s in download speeds.

:D

if i would've not taken the offer to move here, i'd have VDSL2 or fiber (for free through the work). but i cant say i regret. almost, but not quite. there's more to life than just fast internet.

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