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ALARMNZ
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  #373953 28-Aug-2010 15:50
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Sbiddle

Ok lets have a lesson in Physics better still geographical economics?. currently this so called "finite" resource can throw 25-35Mbps around your home and soon you will get a 100Mbps. You see unlike Europe, NZ is an Island in the middle of the ocean isolated from the rest of the world spectrum wise and with a small population we have a 100 times more spectrum than we could possibly use. ( for now) 

I have been a radio tech since I was 15 and deployed my 1st city wide broadband spread spectrum network in 1992 and I count as my friends some of the most qualified radio engineers in the country and after many such discussions the issue that NZ would ever run out of spectrum has always yielded the conclusion that it will not any time soon.

However if you can gather up some kind of evidence to convince otherwise send it to me..... I think you would be better off not suggesting something that is not entirely correct at least in the 21st century here in NZ.

FYI Low voltage home appliances like alarms, intercoms and air conditioning are normally powered via cable to reduce battery maintenance issues and that's why the CHORUS proposal to fit a separate power supply with separate batteries will not get traction. Home owners will want a single universal home backup power supply not a string of battery boxes around the home.

CHORUS have indicated their new device will not suit new homes and also those existing older homes already re-wired for broadband?.. so ask yourself what's the easiest solution to improve broadband in those older wiring situations ? the answer is wifi or run a new piece of Cat5/6 ..who needs the magic box ? the answer is CHORUS.

ascroft

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  #373959 28-Aug-2010 16:03
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SB - looking forward to your blog.

The key question for me is what are the advantages/disadvantages of the SDP over a master splitter. The master splitter seems suitably low key in that it doesn't draw power, require a battery, and a shelf to put it on. And if the property owner leaves they are hardly going to take it with them.

Its what the SDP offers over and above the master splitter that is not yet clear, and the material I have seen does not really describe it in terms that relate to todays multi device at least partially wireless home network - 'main computer' etc is a bit quaint for today....... (yes I appreciate that you plug your wireless router or RSG in to it but others might not understand)




Mark Ascroft
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ALARMNZ
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  #373963 28-Aug-2010 16:21
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Just so we all know what we are talking about here...this is the CHORUS device in all its Glory

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/blog92b1904cbba959d9125a3f0f82cb38b0.jpg

sbiddle
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  #374025 28-Aug-2010 20:21
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ALARMNZ: CHORUS have indicated their new device will not suit new homes and also those existing older homes already re-wired for broadband?.. so ask yourself what's the easiest solution to improve broadband in those older wiring situations ? the answer is wifi or run a new piece of Cat5/6 ..who needs the magic box ? the answer is CHORUS.


You really don't get the whole point of the device. It is designed to remove the need for recabling. If you're going to recable the house you won't be using one.

WiFi is not the answer. You can't deliver analogue voice over WiFi and likewise you can't do GigE. WiFi is a complimentary service to copper cable, not a replacement.

And NZ does have problems with wireless like every other country. I deal with the issues of wireless congestion on a daily basis, the reality of with WiFi being shared spectrum it's damn near impossible to use it in many environments and get anywhere near maximum theoratical speeds.


sbiddle
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  #374028 28-Aug-2010 20:27
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ascroft: SB - looking forward to your blog.

The key question for me is what are the advantages/disadvantages of the SDP over a master splitter. The master splitter seems suitably low key in that it doesn't draw power, require a battery, and a shelf to put it on. And if the property owner leaves they are hardly going to take it with them.

Its what the SDP offers over and above the master splitter that is not yet clear, and the material I have seen does not really describe it in terms that relate to todays multi device at least partially wireless home network - 'main computer' etc is a bit quaint for today....... (yes I appreciate that you plug your wireless router or RSG in to it but others might not understand)


The advantages over a master splitter are installs that can also potentially be a lot simpler than a master splitter as to new wiring is required, normally you're still running a new cable run for an ADSL jackpoint.
You've also got simple upgrade path to VoIP by allowing an ATA/RGW do be very easily connected to the existing phones and are in effect kind of futureproofing yourself for FTTH as well.

It's in effect just a small patch panel in a box. If you're deploying a structured cabling system in a house there is no need, for older houses it's an ideal way to upgrade things.

PenultimateHop
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  #374034 28-Aug-2010 20:54
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ALARMNZ: Sbiddle

Ok lets have a lesson in Physics better still geographical economics?. currently this so called "finite" resource can throw 25-35Mbps around your home and soon you will get a 100Mbps. You see unlike Europe, NZ is an Island in the middle of the ocean isolated from the rest of the world spectrum wise and with a small population we have a 100 times more spectrum than we could possibly use. ( for now)?

I have been a radio tech since I was 15 and deployed my 1st city wide broadband spread spectrum network in 1992 and I count as my friends some of the most qualified radio engineers in the country and after many such discussions the issue that NZ would ever run out of spectrum has always yielded the conclusion that it will not any time soon.

However if you can gather up some kind of evidence to convince otherwise send it to me..... I think you would be better off not suggesting something that is not entirely?correct at least in the 21st century here in NZ.

FYI Low voltage home appliances like alarms, intercoms and air conditioning are normally powered via cable to reduce battery maintenance issues and that's why the CHORUS proposal to fit a separate power supply with separate batteries will not get traction. Home owners will want a single universal home backup power supply not a string of battery boxes around the home.

CHORUS have indicated their new device will not suit new homes and also those existing older homes already re-wired for broadband?.. so ask yourself what's the easiest solution to improve broadband in those older wiring situations ? the answer is wifi or run a new piece of Cat5/6 ..who needs the magic box ? the answer is CHORUS.

I live in a residential area and can see 10 to 20 wireless access points depending on where I stand. That excludes all the 2.4GHz phones and other devices sharing that spectrum. Accordingly, 802.11g performance at my place sucks - luckily all my devices support 802.11a or 802.11n as well, so I can get reasonable performance but it certainly looks like spectrum congestion to me. Now imagine if there are even more of these devices arou d....


Secondly, you cannot run DSL over wifi, and Chorus are not supplying RGs or DSL modems. Using wifi DOES NOT solve the problem that the SDP is trying to solve. Perhaps it would be better if you thought of it as an "enhanced splitter and installation" like what was offered in he past. That might clear up some of the confusion...

ALARMNZ
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  #374068 29-Aug-2010 01:25
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Sbiddle
You are right I do not see the point of the device which appears to be nothing more than an over priced splitter box. OK you put a splitter in a box with a couple of colourful RJ45?s and presto a new demarcation standard.

Sbiddle you said ??You can't deliver analogue voice over WiFi? Hey that?s another big call my friend ? Good luck with that too !!
Perhaps you can explain why (according to you) VoWLAN cannot be delivered.

The issues you are having with Wifi is not congestion rather installation?.what can I say??hmmmm

 
 
 
 


ALARMNZ
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  #374071 29-Aug-2010 02:15
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PenultimateHop:
Secondly, you cannot run DSL over wifi, and Chorus are not supplying RGs or DSL modems. Using wifi DOES NOT solve the problem that the SDP is trying to solve. Perhaps it would be better if you thought of it as an "enhanced splitter and installation" like what was offered in he past. That might clear up some of the confusion...



No one here ever suggested running DSL over Wifi ??

What I am saying is the network access devices like say xDSL will have a onboard Wifi port standard and if you have a local issue getting connected in a home with old wiring wifi is likely going to be the best method before re-cabling, specially if that cabling task is extremely difficult. 

Yes I am so confused why an enhanced splitter is even required going forward and I do miss the point about the need for this  magic box when normal splitters are cheaper and just as effective......but I must be a really really dumb eh ?

Over the next few years as we embrace newer xDSL technology the need for a analog splitter will end and this device will be no longer required. Ask your self how many analog phones will there be in 2020

But for now it appears this magic box is bringing in the suckers by the truckload.


 

PenultimateHop
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  #374073 29-Aug-2010 02:30
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ALARMNZ:
PenultimateHop:
Secondly, you cannot run DSL over wifi, and Chorus are not supplying RGs or DSL modems. Using wifi DOES NOT solve the problem that the SDP is trying to solve. Perhaps it would be better if you thought of it as an "enhanced splitter and installation" like what was offered in he past. That might clear up some of the confusion...



No one?here ever suggested running DSL over Wifi ??

What I am saying is the network access devices like?say xDSL will have a onboard Wifi port standard and if you have a local issue getting connected in a home with old wiring wifi is likely going to be the best method before re-cabling,?specially if that cabling task is extremely difficult.?

Yes I am so confused?why an enhanced splitter is even?required going forward?and I do miss the point about the need for this? magic box when normal splitters are cheaper and just as effective......but I must be a really really dumb eh ?

Over the next few years as we embrace newer xDSL technology the need for a analog splitter will?end and this device will be no longer required. Ask your self how many analog phones will there be in 2020

But for now it appears this?magic box?is bringing in the suckers by the truckload.


?

The Chorus SDP is not a DSL termination device, nor is it intended to replace one. Therefore your suggestion to use WiFi is difficult unless you mean to use it to ship the DSL signal across the home, which is not possible. The SDP is not replacing WiFi for the in-home networking (well not for the most part) but it is providing abetter way to get DSL to your DSL modem.

As for analog phones in 2020, TNZ won't be turning the PSTN off until then so I bet there'll still be quite a number around.

Ragnor
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  #374074 29-Aug-2010 02:40
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ALARMNZ:

But for now it appears this magic box is bringing in the suckers by the truckload.
 


Just looks like an upgraded version of the "full install" they do via ISP's currently

However instead of getting just a master filter installed it sounds like you get a like cabinet, the sdp unit, battery backup?

It doesn't sound that bad for $200.

I doubt they will be able to make this compulsory so uptake of this type of install will be about the same as the current uptake of "full installs" via ISP's currently.

El cheapo's will still go for plug in phone jack filters
Geeks will still DIY or get installed their own structured cabling




mentalinc
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  #374093 29-Aug-2010 07:53
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Ragnor:
ALARMNZ:

But for now it appears this magic box is bringing in the suckers by the truckload.
 


Just looks like an upgraded version of the "full install" they do via ISP's currently

However instead of getting just a master filter installed it sounds like you get a like cabinet, the sdp unit, battery backup?

It doesn't sound that bad for $200.

I doubt they will be able to make this compulsory so uptake of this type of install will be about the same as the current uptake of "full installs" via ISP's currently.

El cheapo's will still go for plug in phone jack filters
Geeks will still DIY or get installed their own structured cabling




Well said.

Also this $200 is the total price of the installed solution including making enough profit for the SDP box maker and for Chorus.

AlarmNZ are you telling me you install alarms for cost price with no markup? If so give me a call I'd love a cost price no profit made alarm installed.

Steve looking forward to the blog.




CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


sbiddle
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  #374112 29-Aug-2010 09:39
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ALARMNZ:
Sbiddle you said ??You can't deliver analogue voice over WiFi? Hey that?s another big call my friend ? Good luck with that too !!
Perhaps you can explain why (according to you) VoWLAN cannot be delivered.

The issues you are having with Wifi is not congestion rather installation?.what can I say??hmmmm


Analogue voice over WIFi requries additional hardware. I explained that above - you really don't read things before replying do you? Many people just want their $29 cordless phone to deliver a dialtone and don't care how it works. You seem to be suggesting that everybody should have to buy an ATA with WiFi bridge to connect this to their home network because WiFi is the solution to everything.

WiFi saturation is obiously a new concept to you also. It's becoming a major issue in metropolitan areas and something I deal with on a daily basis. It's nothing at all to do with installation, it's the fact it's shared ISM frequencies.




sbiddle
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  #374113 29-Aug-2010 09:44
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ALARMNZ:
Over the next few years as we embrace newer xDSL technology the need for a analog splitter will end and this device will be no longer required. Ask your self how many analog phones will there be in 2020




There will be a significant number of analogue phones still in 2020. While the NEAX's will be shut down then and moved to softswitch voice is still going to be an alogue service for many customers, either by PSTN simulation or PSTN emulation. We've already seen telco's like TelstraClear, Vodafone and Orcon do POTS over their ULL circuits which means a totally transparent solution for end users.

With a move to FTTH RGW's or ATA's are going to be the norm in homes to deliver voice. Analogue phones certainly won't be replaced overnight.


ALARMNZ
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  #374163 29-Aug-2010 12:27
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Mark and others

I am moving to this discussion below about the whole issue of Home Demarcation standards as it covers the Topic in a broader sense and beyond the CHORUS world view. The information gained here was useful thanks.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=67153


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