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281 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 375085 31-Aug-2010 21:04
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ALARMNZ:
Again sorry for calling them out ( CHORUS) but what they are doing is very very bad.


No it isn't, and it appears that you are being deliberately obtuse when people kindly try and explain why not to you because of some personal agenda against Chorus you have.

You are engaging in some ridiculous hyperbole, comparing an SDP install at $200 vs a $29 component on the shelf (incidentally that $200 is what currently gets charged for an inferior splitter install to an SDP).

Again you are throwing around the "magic" 50% speed increase as marketing spin/crap despite the fact that numerous people in these threads have explained that this is the kind of improvement in DSL speed you might see after installing a central splitter. Funnily enough though, your average punter in the street doesn't have a scooby doo what a "full install and wiring" is, but they can identify with having a "box" installed that they can see and attribute a speed improvement to.

It seems that your big bugbear is the battery issue, if you bothered to look at the pic you posted you would have seen the (optional) tag on that line. You also engaged in more hyperbole around 1 million more batteries in landfills every year, which suggests every single household with a broadband connection is going to get an SDP installed (and take that optional battery backup) and require a new battery every year.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 375087 31-Aug-2010 21:12
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webwat: The claims for the SDP do seem a bit mysterious and there isn't much enlightening info around.

Chorus website says: "The service delivery point would typically be located close to your main computer and includes an integrated splitter that will support ADSL and VDSL-based services. A version will also be available complete with back-up battery capability to maintain Ethernet-based services in the event of a power-cut."

That implies to me that has some functions of a distribution switch but not necessarily a home networking gateway, perhaps more of a media converter or just a VDSL2 modem? Otherwise, why suggest it should be located near the main computer? Begs the question of whos computer gets to be the "main" one.


Nah, it implies to me that if you are having an SDP installed, then you probably don't have structured cabling, so installing the physical box near the main computer (or rather where the router/RGW is) saves the homeowner running a 20m ethernet cable through the house if they don't want wireless access exclusively on their main PC.

Battery backup for Ethernet-based services suggests to me a VOIP solution delivered over naked IPoE rather than PPPoA or PPPoE, and that the (optional) battery backup is there to light the RGW up and allow the VOIP handset to give a dialtone.

Of course in a FTTH situation you would still need power at the ONT as well, which is a completely separate issue.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 375102 31-Aug-2010 21:34
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I have a funny feeling we wouldn't be hearing you say that even if it was true..... Cry




Mark Ascroft
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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 375105 31-Aug-2010 21:35
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That was for ALARMNZ....




Mark Ascroft
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  Reply # 375118 31-Aug-2010 22:08
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Cymro:

Battery backup for Ethernet-based services suggests to me a VOIP solution delivered over naked IPoE rather than PPPoA or PPPoE, and that the (optional) battery backup is there to light the RGW up and allow the VOIP handset to give a dialtone.

Of course in a FTTH situation you would still need power at the ONT as well, which is a completely separate issue.


Lots of voip devices have PPP support, and many will act as a PPP device for a whole network with nat too




Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 375121 31-Aug-2010 22:21
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CYMRO
Please do not take this all too seriously my personal agenda with CHORUS is too hold them accountable for setting themselves up as a home power supply company without consideration for the consequences like wastage etc. Remember they cannot even maintain roadside cabinet power supplies correctly sp what hope has the consumer got .

Firstly I am not sure what the $200 really involves as CHORUS have yet to release the product and costing, however I am indeed speculating that a $29 device ( still requires installation of cource) could be a cheaper option with the same result. Obviously if CHORUS intends to install a splitter, provide a power with battery supply and run a cable then that?s sounds like great value. Does it make it right just because it?s a ?deal? and you get something for a low price. Does it make it morally right.
T
here is a CHORUS statement out there that a 50% performance increase was possible and I am legitimately asking where that improvement is going to come from and how. If you know for certain about the source of the improvement and have access to the product data in question please provide the answer. Please do not question the validity of the enquiry, currently most of are not sure?. are you?

Yes you are right that?s more like approx 500,000 extra batteries because based on Telecom wholesale data by 2020 most homes ( lets guess at 50%) will require a battery backup to keeps communications running by then and since these batteries have an average life span of three years and based on the 3 million plus broadband connections by 2020 it would be safe to assume quite a few batteries extra will hitting landfills even 100,000 would be too many.

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  Reply # 375453 1-Sep-2010 19:47
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By 2020 we'll probably all be using google cyber-voice and when you need to make a 111 call it will be trigger by the implant in your brain and by routed via trans warp conduits through space and time.

;)

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 375460 1-Sep-2010 19:58
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Nice - with interest free deals from South Canterbury Finance?




Mark Ascroft
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  Reply # 375466 1-Sep-2010 20:10
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ALARMNZ: CYMRO
Please do not take this all too seriously my personal agenda with CHORUS is too hold them accountable for setting themselves up as a home power supply company without consideration for the consequences like wastage etc. Remember they cannot even maintain roadside cabinet power supplies correctly sp what hope has the consumer got .


All telcos have a concern with power supply to Telco equipment. If you cant get over it, at least you should accept that its necessary for another industry to do the things they need to do. Obviously we dont want alarm guys messing around with telco gear that has very different electronics and functions.

ALARMNZ:
Firstly I am not sure what the $200 really involves as CHORUS have yet to release the product and costing, however I am indeed speculating that a $29 device ( still requires installation of cource) could be a cheaper option with the same result. Obviously if CHORUS intends to install a splitter, provide a power with battery supply and run a cable then that?s sounds like great value. Does it make it right just because it?s a ?deal? and you get something for a low price. Does it make it morally right.

The rest of us are speculating too, but we realise that a master splitter on its own will not solve all the challenges that obsolete house wiring presents. Anything requiring a contractor truck-roll will probably start at $200 to cover the callout and time spent on the job.

ALARMNZ:
here is a CHORUS statement out there that a 50% performance increase was possible and I am legitimately asking where that improvement is going to come from and how. If you know for certain about the source of the improvement and have access to the product data in question please provide the answer. Please do not question the validity of the enquiry, currently most of are not sure?. are you?

You are still going about that? In some imaginary scenario that a newspaper reporter can understand that is quite possible. but solving the problem of getting data to multiple rooms without running cables down the hallway is probably more useful.

ALARMNZ:
Yes you are right that?s more like approx 500,000 extra batteries because based on Telecom wholesale data by 2020 most homes ( lets guess at 50%) will require a battery backup to keeps communications running by then and since these batteries have an average life span of three years and based on the 3 million plus broadband connections by 2020 it would be safe to assume quite a few batteries extra will hitting landfills even 100,000 would be too many.

Do you honestly not recycle lead-acid batteries? Shame on you!! I'm sure contractors to any telco (whichever it turns out to be) will not be allowed to dump batteries in rubbish bins, and would find any suggestion of trying to be offensive and unintelligent.

But of course you are trying to sell your alarm/modem battery solution aren't you... Why not sell it as a solution for the LAN routers and access-points instead of trying to argue nonsense about powering stuff that is under contract.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 375481 1-Sep-2010 20:44
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ALARMNZ: Yes you are right that?s more like approx 500,000 extra batteries because based on Telecom wholesale data by 2020 most homes ( lets guess at 50%) will require a battery backup to keeps communications running by then and since these batteries have an average life span of three years and based on the 3 million plus broadband connections by 2020 it would be safe to assume quite a few batteries extra will hitting landfills even 100,000 would be too many.


I was trying to rise above all this, but I just couldn't resist this nugget.

Broadband penetration is plateauing in NZ, there are currently ~1.1million connections for a population of 4.4million.

I'm just wondering where the 4-8million extra people in NZ are going to come from to give you 3million+, and who is going to build the millions of houses they will need.

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  Reply # 375525 1-Sep-2010 22:45
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Cymro

Wireless broadband will bring those numbers up ...most businesses will have dual gateways and we will hit 3 million well before 2020 when our population will be 5 million +

What we need to focus on now is the best Home service demarcation Point (SDP). Currently the TCF suggests that new homes run two (2) cat5 cables to each point see

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/7252

This extra cable idea is ridiculous, a single Cat5 is all that is needed. If they cannot get this basic thing right whats next ? oh yes I forgot...the SDP


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  Reply # 375534 1-Sep-2010 23:36
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ALARMNZ: Cymro

Wireless broadband will bring those numbers up ...most businesses will have dual gateways and we will hit 3 million well before 2020 when our population will be 5 million +

What we need to focus on now is the best Home service demarcation Point (SDP). Currently the TCF suggests that new homes run two (2) cat5 cables to each point see

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/7252

This extra cable idea is ridiculous, a single Cat5 is all that is needed. If they cannot get this basic thing right whats next ? oh yes I forgot...the SDP


I usually pull myself up when I catch my self saying "we will have" or something "will happen" in the future, remembering that I should always state that speculation is just my best guess.

And my best guess for this one is that having over 3 million broadband connections in NZ is quite possible in a few years, including many many mobile devices and phones on 4G networks. While mobile broadband obviously requires batteries, they lithium is not that toxic in a landfill. Batteries attached to fixed telco assets are part of contracts that involve more than just power supply, so not the problem of third party equipment providers.

Why is dual Cat5 cabling "ridiculous"? If you go to the trouble of running cable, you discuss with the property owner potential use and economics before deciding how many cables to run to each location. A bigger issue is what technology is most attractive to deliver an equivalent (but less ideal) result over substandard wiring. After we can compare options more closely, then will be the time to see how Telecom's current solution compares. I suspect G.hn will become the best alternative to a full retrofit because it allows a standardised dongle to connect devices through shared phone wiring. Will take time for hardware to appear in the shops, but I suspect consumers will have plenty of choice between lots of options.




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  Reply # 375538 2-Sep-2010 00:19
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ALARMNZ: Cymro

Wireless broadband will bring those numbers up ...most businesses will have dual gateways and we will hit 3 million well before 2020 when our population will be 5 million +

What we need to focus on now is the best Home service demarcation Point (SDP). Currently the TCF suggests that new homes run two (2) cat5 cables to each point see

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/7252

This extra cable idea is ridiculous, a single Cat5 is all that is needed. If they cannot get this basic thing right whats next ? oh yes I forgot...the SDP



2 cables is the minimum to just reticulate phone and data thru a house, if you are thinking about video etc then more are needed.

Unless you are one of those cowboys that does cable splitting rendering the network only able to function at 100 megabit, or are proposing that everybody deploy IP phones with inbuilt switches as their in house telecommunication devices.

Both ideas are remarkably stupid. 2 cables is not.

A single cat 5 cable cannot deliver data and voice.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 375555 2-Sep-2010 07:16
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The number of times in the past few months a customer has said, "no just one data point there is fine", and called back a few months latter, "can we get another cable in to point x or y" I have lost count of.

You must consider two runs to each faceplate as an essential if doing structured cabling, anyone who says otherwise is taking serious shortcuts.

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  Reply # 375559 2-Sep-2010 07:46
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ALARMNZ: Firstly I am not sure what the $200 really involves as CHORUS have yet to release the product and costing, however I am indeed speculating that a $29 device ( still requires installation of cource) could be a cheaper option with the same result.


You have gone through three of four threads, calling people names, all for a "I am not sure?"

It all sounds to me like sour grapes by now.





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