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  Reply # 394974 23-Oct-2010 10:04
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I wish you could get the braindead concept out of your head that 1 cable is enough.

GigE is here now and you obviously still can't grasp the concept that you can't run voice and GigE over a single cat5e run depite being told that numerous times on here so far.

Fibre to any house that was wired up using your design is wasted - because the end user will never be able to use anything but 100Mbps ethernet.





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  Reply # 395036 23-Oct-2010 15:54
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Well ....Sbiddle if as you say... I have a brian dead concept then surely I must be in good company, which includes the FCC, TIA, EIA,  and BICSI.


The TIA/EIA 570A Standard for Residential Cabling recognizes two grades of communications outlets: 
 
· Grade 1 provides a generic cabling system that meets the minimum requirements for telecommunications services; it includes one four-pair UTP cable and one 75-ohm coaxial cable. 
 
· Grade 2 provides a system that meets the requirements for basic, advanced, and multimedia telecommunications services. Systems specified include a minimum of two four-pair UTP cable and associated connectors that meet or exceed Category 5 performance requirements, two 75-ohm coaxial cables, and an optional two-fiber optical cable.

The FCC adopted the 570A standards and the installation practices put forth by BICSI (www.bicsi.org), under a FCC filed report and order document. That FCC order concentrates on the connection of residential inside wiring to the telephone network in order to establish minimum inside-wiring quality standards, so that poor-quality inside wiring will not hamper today's services. Today its a F.C.C. requirement that all newly constructed residential properties be cabled in accordance with the TIA/EIA 570A Standard and that all outlets shall, at minimum, meet the requirements for a Grade 1 outlet. 



The New Zealand TCF Code for Residential and SOHO Premises Wiring needs to fall in line with international standards and recognise that a single CAT5e/6 cable is the minimum standard and stop wasting valuable NZ home owner resources as they attempt to do in this document. http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/c23a4073-6db3-4970-8dc7-3e8e238f517a.cmr  

 Again the minimum home data/voice cabling to each room outlet is one only (1) Cat5e or Cat6

Minimum Cabling Required
The day I get GigE working thru my Fibre connection will be the day I will worry about my voice requirements, until then I am fine. My guess is that I'll use VoIP to get voice over GigE.Smile got a problem with that as well ?

 When do you expect a GigE connection to the internet at your house....soon ?

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  Reply # 395054 23-Oct-2010 17:17
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When do you expect a GigE connection to the internet at your house....soon ?



Again you totally miss the point. GigE is here now and being used by large numbers of people. Your proposal won't even give people the opportunity to use GigE internally in their house if they want to use a phone from the same location.

I'm done with debating the issue with you. You refuse to accept that anything other than your own ideas are right. I'm totally lost by your meaningless attempts to associate TCF wiring guidelines with TIA specs and say that the TCF are wrong because they're trying to impose what are better standards onto home owners to avoid expensive recabling in the future. Goodbye.




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  Reply # 395055 23-Oct-2010 17:19
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Heard of media servers?

A bluray rip is frequently peaking at 70-80 megabits. With the push to 3d, with 2 images beside each other, guess what happens to the possible bitrates?

Oh crap, I cant play it thru my non futureproof cabling that the alarm cowboy installed for me.

Do alarm installers still have to climb up to a PIR and open it and turn a screw to change its sensitivity like they did 3 years ago? Thought then that they were stuck in the past and this and their reluctance to get off the PSTN for monitoring just reinforces my perception of them being luddites holding smarthouse technologies back.




Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 395084 23-Oct-2010 19:19
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sbiddle:

Again you totally miss the point. GigE is here now and being used by large numbers of people. Your proposal won't even give people the opportunity to use GigE internally in their house if they want to use a phone from the same location.

I'm done with debating the issue with you. You refuse to accept that anything other than your own ideas are right. I'm totally lost by your meaningless attempts to associate TCF wiring guidelines with TIA specs and say that the TCF are wrong because they're trying to impose what are better standards onto home owners to avoid expensive recabling in the future. Goodbye.



I do not think its entirely my own idea considering the FCC made it mandatory 10 years ago, and yes the TCF is trying to impose their own standards and if they were indeed into "better standards" as you suggest… then in my opinion a multimode fibre would be a better future proofing option. ( if you can afford it)

I associate the TCF specs with the TIA as its clear the TCF standard is modelled off that very document. In terms of your suggestion that future home users will want to make multiple Voice calls over copper wires in the same room after  upgrading to GigE ( BTW could be 5-10 years away) and also have also not have migrated to VoIP handset technology is a tenuous position at best.

I will say it once again, I am talking about the “minimum standard” or Grade (1) if you have lots of cash $$ choose Grade (2) and do the extra CAT5e/6 as the TIA suggests, but also consider Fibre as the future proofing option.

Thanks Sbiddle for your comments on Wifi/VoIP, the Splitter in the Box and your thoughts that future GigE users will still want POTS everywhere.

As for the comments by RICHMS: please really if you want to talk about alarms and how they relate to FTTx and XDSL service demarcation point wiring please go ahead I am ready to speak to that anytime, However your current statements quite frivolous and a little bit “young” if you get my drift.

How about some quality comments RICHMS what do you want exactly ?

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  Reply # 395104 23-Oct-2010 21:07
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I'm just pointing out that the alarm industry is hardly known for being very forward thinking or moving on as technology improves.

why are alarms still being installed these days with PSTN dialout for monitoring?

Can a sensor be adjusted to not trigger on cats without climbing up to it?

can the batter in the outdoor unit now be monitored from the panel, and by extension of that the remote monitoring center?

If its alright, I will take advise for future cabling needs from an industry not stuck in the past.




Richard rich.ms



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Reply # 395257 24-Oct-2010 16:14
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RICHMS

I have answered your alarm questions at http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=70466

Thats  if its not deleted by Geekzone already ??

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  Reply # 395260 24-Oct-2010 16:35
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Damn, i had typed a reply in that other thread but the grand master locked it before I could submit it.

Good thing I copyd it before submit..


So what about GPRS monitoring? If I can get a whole GPS unit from asia for under $70 that does GPRS and has GPS reciver in it, why do they cost 100s for an alarm system?

I know that last year (or the one before it) at the home show, I asked every alarm vendor there what they had to monitor an alarm system in a place with only internet and cellular available. A couple said they would get back to me, most said they couldnt do it. The ones that said they would get back to me just said I would need to get a "commercial" alarm and that they would get in touch again, and only one did and it was going to be another $1000 or so for the alarm.

For an industry that has all this technology available to it, why are you content to be pushing for installation of cabling that isnt even good enough to support todays technologies, most people are just wanting dual cat5e's which is only good enough for todays PCs with a gigabit nic on them, not future ones with 10gig onboard, which would need cat-6a and annoying to install outlets.

Your desire to install the minimum that will "work" reminds me of the typical sky installer mentality where they are just doing a fixed price install as quick and as lazy as possible.




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