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Reply # 34717 3-May-2006 21:53
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cokemaster:
nzbnw:

I think what you are saying is a little unfair, Telecom is not "arrogant", and in a case of a National Network, it is expected for there to be a natural monopoly, basic economics. You must understand its not Telecoms role to increase economic growth, which seems to be the basis for LLU as far as the government is concerned, not for someone who wants to download illegal movies really fast.



I think what you are saying is a little unfair, there is much more to high speed internet than just downloading pirated content... One of which is advertised is watching bands live over the net with video/audio (see recent xtra ads), so far has anyone seen this in practice? Because I haven't.

So please stop trying to use the high speed internet = piracy card. Perhaps you should ask a few of the Vista beta testers how much bandwidth they use downloading Vista images (same applies to Linux images too).


Sorry if you read it that way, but it was not my intention to imply that about illegal content, it was merely one example of what high speed internet could be used for. All I was saying was LLU aims to increase economic growth, and at the end of the day this is not Telecom's responsibility.








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Reply # 34720 3-May-2006 22:06
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I use my broadband connection primarily for streaming Internet radio (to hard disk to play on my iPod later on) and downloading funny video clips. speed in valuable and free national traffic to me is the biggest thing, I tired that bit torrent and what a waste of time,, so slooow and video was rubbish. easier (and cheaper almost) to buy it.

 
 
 
 


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Reply # 34721 3-May-2006 22:11
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"If you get the copper ill try burn telecoms billing system to a cd and we can start geeknet :P On that note does anyone have a 10tb cd ?"

Or a spare AS400 lying in their garage?


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Reply # 34722 3-May-2006 22:13
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Usenet - old school but much better for content and no sharing. I pay USD50 for 70GB which lasts me about 6 months. Great speeds and awesome feeds.




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Reply # 34724 3-May-2006 22:17
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Jama: Usenet - old school but much better for content and no sharing. I pay USD50 for 70GB which lasts me about 6 months. Great speeds and awesome feeds.


Yeah... now that Xtra canned NNTP you have to pay Xtra, sorry, extra for it elsewhere.

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Reply # 34725 3-May-2006 22:19
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Usenet! Holy cow, I'm amazed that still exists! shows you can't beat the tried and true,. I was sharing mp3's in 1996 (or 1997?) using mIRC and some channel with scripts called /mp3nz using ihug's Starnet, Satnet, Ultra, then dead.. (which reminds me, that old ihug dish is sitting in the mr2, I better get it out before I send it down to new owner.)

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Reply # 34726 3-May-2006 22:23
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Juha - Xtra never offered access to all the groups.




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Reply # 34728 3-May-2006 23:03
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I wouldn't write them off too quickly. They own some good spectrum and there are WiMAX vendors interested in producing kit around that frequency.

If Telecom has stopped rural DSLAMs then there is a new market opening up and with the lower frequency they can get through trees and around corners better than the companies buying the 3.5 GHz spectrum.

Besides which, since they already have an infrastructure with lots of radio backhaul links, I would expect them to be a good candidate for putting DSLAMs into exchanges and roadside cabinets.

In particular the roadside cabinets that are connected by fibre to the exchanges. The announcement was only about unbundling the copper loop. What IINET has learnt from the Aust market is that even through you have gear in the exchanges, you can't reach the roadside cabients joined by fibre and hence to the customers. So if I was Telecom i would build a more distributed network with intelligence away from the central exchange so the unbundling becomes harder for others. The RSPs then have to lease capacity off you to reach these roadside cabinets and they can only afford to take naked ADSL and not ULL.

Whoosh has 632 radio licences according to the RSM website so they can reach the roadside cabinets easier than others and so unbundling might be a good scenario for them.


As far as I understand they have 1 channel at 2067.5mhz and some 3.5ghz pairs for Southland probe. That leaves them with a pretty poor prospect to move to wimax :) not enough channel size for decent throughput, not enough pairs to ensure sectors dont interfere. UTMS modulation and wimax modulation are a different kettle of fish.

Regarding backhaul, your right they will be in a good position to roll out links quickly. DMR gear and licensing is pretty expensive but with a large number of transmission sites they have a decent chance of using a cheaper technology and meshing to achive the required reliability. rolling this out with DSLAMs isnt going to be cheap however and are they really going to go back their they backers and ask them to foot the bill for a wired network now they are finally getting decent urban wireless penetration?

I guess there this leaves them is with a wannabe 3G network which they cannot compete as IMHO unless they buy more spectrum space (probably ~2.5GHz) and begin another roll out which I doubt their backers will want to finance.

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Reply # 34730 3-May-2006 23:51
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LLU is going to mean cheaper comms for everyone, it's hard to feel much sympathy for Telecom. In fact I find the number of Telecom apologists on geekzone pretty sickening. I think employees and other cronies should be required to declare their interests in their signatures.

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Reply # 34731 3-May-2006 23:56
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nzdn: LLU is going to mean cheaper comms for everyone, it's hard to feel much sympathy for Telecom. In fact I find the number of Telecom apologists on geekzone pretty sickening. I think employees and other cronies should be required to declare their interests in their signatures.
They are not in bigger number than Vodafone ones.

Actually the only time that I had to a) block an IP address and b) ban a user were both related to Vodafone.





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Reply # 34732 3-May-2006 23:59
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So a couple of thoughts and questions amidst the celebrations...

1. If you were an ISP who just received this news and were financially limited (being a small ISP and all of that) where would you be targetting your efforts? Answer: Major metros (ie Auckland Wellington and Christchurch). Why? its where the population density is, the computer literate people are and will be the most efficient way to reach the most people?

2. If the ISPs focus on the major metros, where will Telecom focus? Answer : on the major metros

3. Who will be left behind in this - anyone outside these areas (and I would suggest that will be anyone outside the immediate suburbs surrounding the CBD) Why? the economics won't stack up as well as the metro areas so they become a lesser priority.

4. What is the incentive for Telecom to invest in shortening copper loop lengths, which will be the long term driver of ubiquitous high speed (think DSL2+ speeds)  services such as high definition streaming video. ANswer: none - if it was your business and you had choices between investing in things that would provide you with competitive advantage vs things that would provide your competitors with the same capability you are going to look at things that primarily benefit your organisation, not your competition

5. Will these ISPs invest in new services straight away like TV? Probably not - that stuff is expensive for one (think many 10's of million), has even longer paybacks than 'normal' broadband (think 5 years plus if you look at SKY locally) and is going to be deprioritised against the need to pick up access customers for the first few years at least.

6. What is the incentive for someone with no infrastructure to invest in new technology to give you competitive advantage when you can wait around long enough and lobby to get access to someone else's investment - its like me not setting up a competitive proposition to the best geek site in the country, complaining to David Cunliffe that Mauricio has an unfair advantage and then putting my own site content on Mauricio's site when DC finally capitulates to my argument - giving me access to all of Mauricio's traffic so I can monetise that without any real effort

7. There was a comment earlier in the thread about Telecom execs selling down their shares in advance of this- if Telecom's governance is as tight as any other company this would be impossible. It would need to be done via the Company Secretary who would clearly disallow this for two reasons
a. Company result is being announced in a day or two so you can only sell in the month after a quarterly result
b. Insider trading based on non-public information

My personal opinion - This results in more competition in the major metros only and for fast broadband. Live in a lifestyle suburb near a major metro or a provincial centre ? no good news here for you...Looking for compelling TV services over broadband to arrive soon ?you'll be disappointed.

From a national psyche perspective though this decision means there is no incentive for what we really need kiwis to do - get off their @$$ and make a difference. Thank goodness for people like Sam Morgan who quietly get on with his own business, see opportunities, don't complain about the unfairness of it all and just make it happen. This decision rewards those who complain rather than those who do the hard yards- hardly the stuff that makes you proud to be kiwi....

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Reply # 34733 4-May-2006 00:06
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Thank you mikman for the sensible questions. They are the same things i am wondering. All you ULL proponents out there why dont explain how NZ is REALLY going to benefit. 3 years before we see any benefits yet we have already started loosing.

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Reply # 34734 4-May-2006 00:12
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nzdn: LLU is going to mean cheaper comms for everyone, it's hard to feel much sympathy for Telecom. In fact I find the number of Telecom apologists on geekzone pretty sickening. I think employees and other cronies should be required to declare their interests in their signatures.


I am firmly in Telecoms camp on this one. Not for a love of Telecom but because i honestly believe that ULL is a bad thing for this country. There are many issues which i have been really angered by Telecom and as for their staff on here they are showing nothing more than loyalty to a great company and you cant ask for anything less from them.

You say Telecom apologists... You are obviously a Annette apologist. Do you happen to work in one of Slingshots indian call centres?

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Reply # 34735 4-May-2006 00:14
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Nice post mikman. The one thing that gets me over this whole LLU issue, is the Government is not happy with broadband uptake, and wants to impose LLU upon Telecom and New Zealand for that matter to encourage economic growth, yet business broadband uptake is high, and they are the ones who are going to provide economic growth, not your average home user, or 'geek' user for that matter ;)



nzdn, are you afraid of us Telecom people, and afraid to stand up for your employer?? We are just providing the other side of the story, and with out us half of this thread would not exist?







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Reply # 34736 4-May-2006 00:18
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Let us say that certain remote schools (whom my father is a principal at) didn't get ADSL at all until government pressures were applied to get broadband in schools.

Of course, the area is in question is quite remote but I don't think Telecom or any other competitor would ever consider making that area ADSL ready LLC or not.

And other towns have only slowly been getting ADSL compared to major centres. How is this different to what could happen in a LLC situation?




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