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364 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 34737 4-May-2006 00:23
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I seriously don't find any point in fighting over whether LLU is good or bad now.. the Government have made their decision. One thing I'm curious about though: why is it that Australia has benefited from LLU considering they also have a large rural area, and what makes NZ different we can't benefit from LLU?

I sure hope Optus will buy up Telecom as Juha speculated in one of his post.. Mmmm.. Singtel. :)

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Reply # 34738 4-May-2006 00:27
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Well apart from Telecom and the heroic brave attempt by Woosh, I see no other parties who were investing. hmm, Econet is vaporware, vodafone only invests 3G where Vodafone live uptake/concentration is good, telstra abandoned mobile, saturn.. I'll stick with Telecom thankyou.

I also have iTalk, yes a slingshot product but is fantastic.

 
 
 
 


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Reply # 34739 4-May-2006 00:27
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ULL good for business and the economy? $760 million wiped off Telecoms market capitialisation. Tomorrow morning is going to be chaos on the NZX and not just for Telecom. The whole market will go down and lots of people are going to loose a lot of money. But still thats good for the economy right.

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Reply # 34740 4-May-2006 00:38
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It's really interesting to read comments from people either previously working for Telecom NZ, or seem to have a fetish that they wish they were.....

Telecom NZ attracts some of the finest talent I've ever worked with. Most of those are kiwis, like you and me.

Some previous comments to mine are WAAAAYYYYY uninformed. Have you people taken the option to read public submissions to the CC? If yes, and you are running a network investment business, why would you act differently?

"It's 2006... Telecom had no incentive to upgrade its network because it was making good money from the old one, old and overloaded as it was. What's to say that increased wholesale activity won't act as an incentive for Telecom to ensure that its network performs well?"

Such comments represent an uninformed opinion that is not based upon fact. Me, like hundreds of other people "Telecom network aware" know such comments are total B.S

"TG has already had a slap over the wrist about aapt but now ull doesnt make it too 5hit hot that all of this has happed under her as the ceo"

Um, hello, do you know actually what is going on here? It wasn't up to TG - Telecom NZ Ltd (which TG works for) spent $$$$$$ on modeling which options to take, and TG (disclaimer: most likely) took advice and chose one. Result? AAPT is now for sale...

 But yes... from an investor point of view the buck stops with TG.

So yes, your ADSL download speeds have turned to crap, but Broadband Spectrum Management will help with this. If you don't know what this is, read my comments above....the CC know about it but seem to have ignored it for full 7.xMbps ADSL.... groan.....

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Reply # 34741 4-May-2006 00:45
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Man I read some nutty stuff on here tonight!

1. Gather up your spare funds and get ready to buy some Telecom shares on Friday when the price hits the bottom.  Yes, I agree that there are a few investors who will take fright at this news and dump a bit of stock because they don't understand the true impact on the business. 

2.  Look at the UBL process in AU as a good example of what is likly to happen here.  Telcom will tie everyone up in red tape for years to come.  While we'll have a UBL, it is going to take years for Telecom to agree with providers about prices, get systems in place and then get equipment installed.

3. Vodafone and Woosh will take a tempoary stock dive but both are as safe as houses.  Dispite what many of you are ranting about, this isn't going to have an iota of impact on Woosh and business will be same as usual for them.  I don't think VF are really going to give two hoots either, sure they'll make some PC noises but that's about all.

4. WiMAX trials are running all around the place right now.  Many providers aren't going to suddenly deviate from their current testing to drop DSLAMs in every suburb.  Other providers who are currently doing nothing will continue to maintain a wait and see approach.

5.  NZ public is completely apathetic about bb.  As a nation we just don't give a flying truck.  What we do know is that Telecom support alot of our communities in different ways.  We've been mucked about by other telephone providers so much over the past 10 years that we really do need a good reason to change (and $10 here and there doesn't cut the mustard). 

6.  Kiwi's are spending money on Sky TV and mobile phones.  Your average Kiwi is more likly to invest $5,000.00 in a new TV over the next 3 years than upgrading from dialup.  If you think I'm wrong then go check out the big ticket items at the Warehouse and Kmart as a good indicator of what's going on.

7.  The price of fuel is going up so something has to give because wages are not keeping pace.  Telecommunications is on the chopping block for your average Kiwi and if most are forced to choose between bb, sky tv and the mobile phone then bb will be the first to be packed up.  Last month my sister in law moved houses.  She's a single parent with one daughter.  She earns over $50,000.00 pa.  She ordered SkyTV, upgraded her mobile phone free minutes and dumped the telephone line.  If she want's to use the net she can do that at work and her daughter can do it at school. 

I'm sure I could rant for another thousand words but I know most of you hate long posts so I'll leave it there... 

Cheers Don




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Reply # 34742 4-May-2006 01:23
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It should be obvious that "I think Telecom are great for the following reasons" will be interpreted differently as soon as you add "and by the way Telecom feeds my family".

BTW no personal affiliations, I'm just a geek in the zone. I know my company does business with both the behemoths; I don't know about smaller telcos.
And for the record Annette Presley's appalling newzild accent gives me the sh**s Smile

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Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 34745 4-May-2006 08:35
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This will all be moot, 2yrs+ for LLU, by then at least Telecom won't care as much the NGN will be finished / operational..





My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


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Reply # 34746 4-May-2006 09:04
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cokemaster: So please stop trying to use the high speed internet = piracy card. Perhaps you should ask a few of the Vista beta testers how much bandwidth they use downloading Vista images (same applies to Linux images too).

I use about 8GB of my 10GB plan downloading legitimate iso's. I higher cap and higher speed would see me downloading even more even faster...




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Reply # 34747 4-May-2006 09:13
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nzdn: In fact I find the number of Telecom apologists on geekzone pretty sickening. I think employees and other cronies should be required to declare their interests in their signatures.

  • Everyone is entitled to their opinion (keeping their posts within forum guidelines of course).
  • I think forcing people to declare an association is akin to some things that happened in WWII.
  • Take anything you read on a forum with a grain of salt - its opinions, not gospel.
  • Not everyone in this world agrees on everything else with everyone else. Its called opinion and debate.
I voluntarily declare that I do not work for Telecom, and that I have mixed feelings towards the U of the LL.





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Juha
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Reply # 34748 4-May-2006 09:18
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Can I just ask everyone to read the whole document?

Please remember that there is much more to it than just LLU.




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Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 34749 4-May-2006 09:21
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nzdn: In fact I find the number of Telecom apologists on geekzone pretty sickening. I think employees and other cronies should be required to declare their interests in their signatures.


I voluntarily declare that I do work for Telecom, and I too have mixed feelings towards the U of the LL,
Opinion and debate is expected on a forum, besides if you have been coming here long enough then it becomes quite obvious who works for certain players..




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


Hawkes Bay
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Reply # 34752 4-May-2006 09:37
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Yes, anyone who has been here for a while should get about 90%+ on a test of "Which major telco (if any) do these users work for".
Its also common for people to say so in the forums.

I'd like to see a "polls" feature on GZ to help gauge this communitys feelings on certain subjects...




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Reply # 34753 4-May-2006 09:48
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1. Gather up your spare funds and get ready to buy some Telecom shares on Friday when the price hits the bottom. Yes, I agree that there are a few investors who will take fright at this news and dump a bit of stock because they don't understand the true impact on the business.


Yes this is probably the most important immediate concern most of us should have ;)


2. Look at the UBL process in AU as a good example of what is likly to happen here. Telcom will tie everyone up in red tape for years to come. While we'll have a UBL, it is going to take years for Telecom to agree with providers about prices, get systems in place and then get equipment installed.


Indeed it will take quite some time before we see any commercial implications from this.


3. Vodafone and Woosh will take a tempoary stock dive but both are as safe as houses. Dispite what many of you are ranting about, this isn't going to have an iota of impact on Woosh and business will be same as usual for them. I don't think VF are really going to give two hoots either, sure they'll make some PC noises but that's about all.


I disagree with you on Woosh in the medium to long term for the reasons I stated in my last post, short term they are safe however yes.


4. WiMAX trials are running all around the place right now. Many providers aren't going to suddenly deviate from their current testing to drop DSLAMs in every suburb. Other providers who are currently doing nothing will continue to maintain a wait and see approach.


DSL2+ is the only way you can deploy triple play services in a commercial environment apart from fiber, WiMAX simply lacks the bandwidth. You will see niche markets however of course.


6. Kiwi's are spending money on Sky TV and mobile phones. Your average Kiwi is more likly to invest $5,000.00 in a new TV over the next 3 years than upgrading from dialup. If you think I'm wrong then go check out the big ticket items at the Warehouse and Kmart as a good indicator of what's going on.


True, they go plonk down $5,000 on a tv then realise it looks worse than their old TV with analog channels and Sky Digitals crappy compression rates. I wish we had some way of multicasting highbandwidth stream out to residential customers... HMMM :)



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Reply # 34754 4-May-2006 09:55
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In my view there are two main issus with our internet service in New Zealand. One is speed (especially upstream speed) and the second is the crazy data limits we have on our plans. I am not sure what other countries impose data limits but there can't be many (I think Oz does in some plans0.

LLU solves the speed problem for some. I was never sure why local DSL customers could not get more than 128K upstream which is really poor considering what broadband can offer - video conferencing etc. I have never used DSL myself and am on a 2MBs/2MBs plan from TCL with 20G limit. That serves me pretty well most of the time. I have tried full screen video conferencing with folks in the US and it's pretty good, something I could not say when my TCL plan was only 128K upstream.

I am not sure why we have data caps on our plans - perhaps to do with the cost of international traffic or just repacious ISP's? And LLU won't solve that. After all TCL can provide high speed connections to Wellington and ChCh customers and still has data limits but to be fair, they are fairly generous (there is a 40G plan available with $5.95 per month per gig over that). So unless the ISP's can afford to invest both in DSLAMs and highspeed backhaul circuits as well as get cheaper international pricing, we might see faster speeds locally, but we are going to have to pay for them. Will that help broadband penetration? Only time will tell.





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Juha
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Reply # 34755 4-May-2006 10:00
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lchiu7: LLU solves the speed problem for some. I was never sure why local DSL customers could not get more than 128K upstream which is really poor considering what broadband can offer - video conferencing etc. I have never used DSL myself and am on a 2MBs/2MBs plan from TCL with 20G limit. That serves me pretty well most of the time. I have tried full screen video conferencing with folks in the US and it's pretty good, something I could not say when my TCL plan was only 128K upstream.


I think we need to be careful with terminology here - what you describe above is not LLU, but rather the Unconstrained UBS with the upstream speed limit removed and the prohibition on supporting real time services taken off.

I am not sure why we have data caps on our plans - perhaps to do with the cost of international traffic or just repacious ISP's? And LLU won't solve that. After all TCL can provide high speed connections to Wellington and ChCh customers and still has data limits but to be fair, they are fairly generous (there is a 40G plan available with $5.95 per month per gig over that). So unless the ISP's can afford to invest both in DSLAMs and highspeed backhaul circuits as well as get cheaper international pricing, we might see faster speeds locally, but we are going to have to pay for them. Will that help broadband penetration? Only time will tell.



The new regulation should in fact help solve that. Telecom will no longer be able to decide its wholesale providers data caps, as it does currently with the CUBS.




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