Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
425 posts

Ultimate Geek


Reply # 34756 4-May-2006 10:12
Send private message


I think we need to be careful with terminology here - what you describe above is not LLU, but rather the Unconstrained UBS with the upstream speed limit removed and the prohibition on supporting real time services taken off.


With LLU, then ISPs can set their own upstream limits, can they not?  At the moment they take what Telecom gives them.  If the ISPs can't change the upstream speeds, I don't quite see the point of LLU.





Juha
1318 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted
Subscriber

Reply # 34757 4-May-2006 10:21
Send private message

JonC:
With LLU, then ISPs can set their own upstream limits, can they not? At the moment they take what Telecom gives them. If the ISPs can't change the upstream speeds, I don't quite see the point of LLU.



LLU means that providers can install their own equipment in Telecom's exchanges and roadside cabinets, with data backhaul to their networks. This means they will set the DSL parameters like up and downstream speed, and not Telecom. Furthermore, the Commerce Commission will dimension the backhaul and not Telecom.

However, LLU is a more expensive option than wholesaled Telecom DSL; the government has now taken away the constraints placed on the regulated service, so we'll see if Telecom will let that flow through to its commercial offering. If not, I suspect that any applications for a regulated service determination will be very quickly approved indeed.




 
 
 
 


Try Wrike: fast, easy, and efficient project collaboration software
425 posts

Ultimate Geek


Reply # 34758 4-May-2006 10:40
Send private message

juha:
LLU means that providers can install their own equipment in Telecom's exchanges and roadside cabinets, with data backhaul to their networks. This means they will set the DSL parameters like up and downstream speed, and not Telecom. Furthermore, the Commerce Commission will dimension the backhaul and not Telecom.

However, LLU is a more expensive option than wholesaled Telecom DSL; the government has now taken away the constraints placed on the regulated service, so we'll see if Telecom will let that flow through to its commercial offering. If not, I suspect that any applications for a regulated service determination will be very quickly approved indeed.


Sounds good then - will be interesting to see which companies will be willing to make the investment. IIRC in the UK it took a couple of years after LLU to get ADSL2, so they've only just recently got a 24Mbps ADSL service - https://www.bethere.co.uk/ - but their pricing is competitive 24 pounds ($NZ 70) per month for UNLIMITED 24Mbps down, 1.3Mbps up. Obviously you have to be close to an exchange to get 24Mbps, but it's certainly better than anything in NZ right now. Something's gotta be wrong if broadband is cheaper and better in the UK. I guess only time will tell if the same thing happens here.

Another thing that's interesting about ADSL in the UK is that you still need a BT (equivalent to Telecom) phoneline - mind you, they only charge about $25 per month for line rental. I guess the ISPs over there still can't lease the last mile of copper, so customers still have to pay BT for that.



BDFL - Memuneh
60296 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 11345

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 34762 4-May-2006 11:25
Send private message

Jama: Usenet - old school but much better for content and no sharing. I pay USD50 for 70GB which lasts me about 6 months. Great speeds and awesome feeds.
Usenet (NNTP) used to be essential to Internet Services. What are other users going to do now that Xtra cut their usenet server access?

Sorry, going OT, will create a thread for this...





2365 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12

Trusted
Spark

Reply # 34764 4-May-2006 11:27
Send private message

lchiu7: In my view there are two main issus with our internet service in New Zealand. One is speed (especially upstream speed) and the second is the crazy data limits we have on our plans. I am not sure what other countries impose data limits but there can't be many (I think Oz does in some plans0.



LLU solves the speed problem for some. I was never sure why local DSL customers could not get more than 128K upstream which is really poor considering what broadband can offer - video conferencing etc. I have never used DSL myself and am on a 2MBs/2MBs plan from TCL with 20G limit. That serves me pretty well most of the time. I have tried full screen video conferencing with folks in the US and it's pretty good, something I could not say when my TCL plan was only 128K upstream.



I am not sure why we have data caps on our plans - perhaps to do with the cost of international traffic or just repacious ISP's? And LLU won't solve that. After all TCL can provide high speed connections to Wellington and ChCh customers and still has data limits but to be fair, they are fairly generous (there is a 40G plan available with $5.95 per month per gig over that). So unless the ISP's can afford to invest both in DSLAMs and highspeed backhaul circuits as well as get cheaper international pricing, we might see faster speeds locally, but we are going to have to pay for them. Will that help broadband penetration? Only time will tell.





Please correct me if I am wrong, but dont ISP's current have a choice as to if they buy ADSL plans from Telecom with or without data caps, and inturn they impose their own data caps?? At least that is the impression I get from the Telecom Wholesale website??







4828 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 90

Trusted

Reply # 34765 4-May-2006 11:29
Send private message

juha:
lchiu7: LLU solves the speed problem for some. I was never sure why local DSL customers could not get more than 128K upstream which is really poor considering what broadband can offer - video conferencing etc. I have never used DSL myself and am on a 2MBs/2MBs plan from TCL with 20G limit. That serves me pretty well most of the time. I have tried full screen video conferencing with folks in the US and it's pretty good, something I could not say when my TCL plan was only 128K upstream.


I think we need to be careful with terminology here - what you describe above is not LLU, but rather the Unconstrained UBS with the upstream speed limit removed and the prohibition on supporting real time services taken off.

I am not sure why we have data caps on our plans - perhaps to do with the cost of international traffic or just repacious ISP's? And LLU won't solve that. After all TCL can provide high speed connections to Wellington and ChCh customers and still has data limits but to be fair, they are fairly generous (there is a 40G plan available with $5.95 per month per gig over that). So unless the ISP's can afford to invest both in DSLAMs and highspeed backhaul circuits as well as get cheaper international pricing, we might see faster speeds locally, but we are going to have to pay for them. Will that help broadband penetration? Only time will tell.



The new regulation should in fact help solve that. Telecom will no longer be able to decide its wholesale providers data caps, as it does currently with the CUBS.


As others have noted LLU allows other providers to set whatever upstream speed their technology can provide. And I am not sure why TCL limits their upstream to 2Mbs since with cable you can have symmetric speeds I thought. Maybe they provide just enough to be better than current Telecom offerings!

As for data caps, since TCL is not bound by the wholesale  providers caps, I wonder why they impose them?




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


My Google+ page 

 

 

 

https://plus.google.com/+laurencechiu

 

 


425 posts

Ultimate Geek


Reply # 34766 4-May-2006 11:32
Send private message

nzbnw:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but dont ISP's current have a choice as to if they buy ADSL plans from Telecom with or without data caps, and inturn they impose their own data caps?? At least that is the impression I get from the Telecom Wholesale website??


There are some very expensive and slow unlimited options out there, so presumably ISPs can buy unlimited plans wholesale from Telecom.  I'm guessing that their uptake isn't so good is because Telecom charges so much for them wholesale.

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Reply # 34767 4-May-2006 11:32
Send private message

Sort of, you have WBS or Wholesale Bitstream Service in which the customer still uses netgate (Telecom) for Internet backhaul. Than you have UBS in which the product is bought back to the ISP via a layer 2 tunnel and they provide the customers Internet and data requirements. With UBS ISP get a 10GB per customer aggregate total to work with.

2365 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12

Trusted
Spark

Reply # 34769 4-May-2006 11:35
Send private message

As far as I know Telstra impose Data caps for the same reason as everyone else, the cost of getting data to this side of the world.

I am sure Telecom and Telstra are not doing this for the fun of it, it will have some implications of their business models.








425 posts

Ultimate Geek


Reply # 34770 4-May-2006 11:40
Send private message

lchiu7:
As others have noted LLU allows other providers to set whatever upstream speed their technology can provide. And I am not sure why TCL limits their upstream to 2Mbs since with cable you can have symmetric speeds I thought. Maybe they provide just enough to be better than current Telecom offerings!

As for data caps, since TCL is not bound by the wholesale providers caps, I wonder why they impose them?


I think you answered your own question - TCL only provide enough data cap / upstream speed, etc to be better than their competitor and no more - what's their motivation for providing a lot better plans rather than just a little better (as is current)?  It's a bit like petrol companies - they only match what their competitors are willing to offer.  When you have only a handful of big players in the market, they can get away with doing this.  Let's hope LLU shakes things up.  I'm not 100% certain it will, but I'm hoping.

When Telecom brought in their better broadband plans, TCL responded with higher data caps (as their speeds are already as good as or better than Telecom's faster plans anyway).  Just like Telecom offers cheaper phone service only where TCL operates - they only do just enough to be as good as or better than their competitors.



Nate wants an iphone
3901 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 28

Mod Emeritus
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 34771 4-May-2006 11:46
Send private message

Well, we know that Telecoms shares are going down....






webhosting |New Zealand connectionsgeekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


425 posts

Ultimate Geek


Reply # 34774 4-May-2006 11:49
Send private message

nzbnw:

As far as I know Telstra impose Data caps for the same reason as everyone else, the cost of getting data to this side of the world.

I am sure Telecom and Telstra are not doing this for the fun of it, it will have some implications of their business models.



It's true that it costs more for bringing data down to NZ, but that's not the whole story - businesses will always sell a product at a price that will maximise their returns.  If a widget costs you 50c to make, why sell 100 widgets at $1, if you can sell 70 at $3?  If you have a popular / essential product and no competition, then you can set your own price - it doesn't matter what it costs you.  It's just basic business practice - usually a free market sorts these problems out as you won't sell many widgets at $3 when your competition is offering the same for $2, but in the broadband market before LLU, there was no free market.



344 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Trusted

Reply # 34789 4-May-2006 14:26
Send private message

well... this is certainly he last time I vote for Labour... in fact I only did it to help poor people last time, I would have done very well out of National's tax (read service) cuts!

Anyone else old enough to remember Rob Muldoon's controlled economy?

Helen Clark, acting CEO, Telecom New Zealand Limited


4295 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 148

Mod Emeritus
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 34790 4-May-2006 14:28
Send private message

I agree

1420 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Reply # 34791 4-May-2006 14:39
Send private message

Me to National can count me in but then I have never been a lover of the leftie policy of interference.




Twitter - GaryRo
Jama Jam

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New FUJIFILM X-T100 aims to do better job than smartphones
Posted 24-May-2018 20:17


Stuff takes 100% ownership of Stuff Fibre
Posted 24-May-2018 19:41


Exhibition to showcase digital artwork from across the globe
Posted 23-May-2018 16:44


Auckland tops list of most vulnerable cities in a zombie apocalypse
Posted 23-May-2018 12:52


ASB first bank in New Zealand to step out with Garmin Pay
Posted 23-May-2018 00:10


Umbrellar becomes Microsoft Cloud Solution Provider
Posted 22-May-2018 15:43


Three New Zealand projects shortlisted in IDC Asia Pacific Smart Cities Awards
Posted 22-May-2018 15:14


UpStarters - the New Zealand tech and innovation story
Posted 21-May-2018 09:55


Lightbox updates platform with new streaming options
Posted 17-May-2018 13:09


Norton Core router launches with high-performance, IoT security in New Zealand
Posted 16-May-2018 02:00


D-Link ANZ launches new 4G LTE Dual SIM M2M VPN Router
Posted 15-May-2018 19:30


New Panasonic LUMIX FT7 ideal for outdoor: waterproof, dustproof
Posted 15-May-2018 19:17


Ryanair Goes All-In on AWS
Posted 15-May-2018 19:14


Te Papa and EQC Minecraft Mod shakes up earthquake education
Posted 15-May-2018 19:12


Framing Facebook: It’s not about technology
Posted 14-May-2018 16:02



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.