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Reply # 34792 4-May-2006 14:39
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Felix:

well... this is certainly he last time I vote for Labour... in fact I only did it to help poor people last time, I would have done very well out of National's tax (read service) cuts!

Anyone else old enough to remember Rob Muldoon's controlled economy?

Helen Clark, acting CEO, Telecom New Zealand Limited



The interesting thing was that last night National issued a press release on their website saying they supported the decision!

Maurice Williamson being the typical idiotic plonker he is was foaming at the mouth on National Radio this morning and was completely opposed to the decision and also claimed National didn't support the decision either (maybe he dosn't read the party press releases??). He also seemed to have not even read the cabinet documents as he was factually incorrect on several of his statements and Cunliffe actually suggested he could benefit from reading the documents.

Labour had promised action with Telecom before the election so what has happened is no surprise at all.




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Reply # 34793 4-May-2006 14:43
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There is nothing on the National site. Both National and ACT have come out against it. At least somebody has brains in Wellington

 
 
 
 


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Reply # 34794 4-May-2006 14:44
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Yep... the only surprise to me was that the govt mustered up the bollocks required to do what they threatened to do, and to do it now, and not in mid 2008. (Although it could be that long before any real benefits to Joe Bloggs consumer are realised).

Doesnt matter which post your horse is hitched to, everyone knew this was on the table.




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Reply # 34795 4-May-2006 14:45
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Felix:

Clark, acting CEO, Telecom New Zealand Limited



Well, Telecom are hardly a normal company by any means, you'd have to admit. They were given the enormous infrastructure of the NZ telephone system. The government at the time placed some regulations in place to make sure that Telecom weren't going to fleece NZers because of the monopoly position they were put in. Times have changed and technology has changed and so the government has had to step in to allow other players into the broadband market on an equal footing.

Mind you it's not really an even an equal footing. Even if other companies decide to invest money into putting equipment into local exchanges, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage because Telecom never had to do that - it was gifted to them.  Admittedly they have made huge investments in the system, but they were the only ones allowed to make that investment and are now an entrenched player.

The enormous profits and huge capital value Telecom has (quite a unique position for a national land-line telecoms operator) achieved on the NZ stock market has been solely due to the tax-payer paid-for infrastructure that it inherited and exploited in the boom in telecommunications expenditure by consumers and business in the past decade.

It's not as if this was out of the blue either - I'm a bit surprised the markets have reacted so violently.





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Reply # 34796 4-May-2006 14:45
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I think we should remember that it's Mo Williamson we have to thank for all these years of inaction. He did absolutely nothing useful as minister. Who allowed Telecom to squeeze out Saturn for instance with predatory pricing?




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Reply # 34798 4-May-2006 14:50
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Wow JonC put your Labour flag away. Given is not the word. Labour SOLD the network for $4.5b to Ameritech and Bell Atlantic. That is hardly a give away. If you spend that sort of money you are entitled to a return unless of course you have a leftie socalist view which says it is ok to sell an asset and then take it back.

$4.5b - the tax payer has been reimbursed.

Some people should do their home work before making such outrageous claims!




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Reply # 34802 4-May-2006 15:03
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Jama: Wow JonC put your Labour flag away. Given is not the word. Labour SOLD the network for $4.5b to Ameritech and Bell Atlantic. That is hardly a give away. If you spend that sort of money you are entitled to a return unless of course you have a leftie socalist view which says it is ok to sell an asset and then take it back.


I certainly didn't vote Labour.  I don't really understand why anyone would be cheering on Telecom, unless you're a shareholder or employee.  Every other OECD nation has done LLU (except Mexico, apparently)  I've nothing against Telecom, it's just that broadband in NZ is crap compared to everywhere else in the world and Telecom aren't doing all they can to improve that.  Faster, cheaper, my arse.

I didn't mean to imply that the government actually gave away the network - but you'd have to admit that $4.5b was pretty cheap given Telecom's market cap now (even with the 10% hit they took today) and the amount they've paid out in dividends over the years.  It doesn't change the fact that once in place Telecom have exploited the infrastructure fully to keep competition away - as all good businesses do.



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Reply # 34803 4-May-2006 15:05
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Jama, you beat me to it... just! $4.5b to Ameritech and Bell Atlantic... $4.5b... the b is for billion!

ULL is be like telling CCH they have to let anyone who claims to be a competitor grow trees on their land... or telling ANZ Bank they have to let customers from other banks be served by their tellers..

Telecom is not owned by the NZ govt (though it is about to be run by it) it is owned by the share holders...

Perhaps I should stop complaining and move to the slightly more free country of Cuba... at least the weather is better, and I hear the cigars are great... not sure about the broadband speeds though ;-)





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Reply # 34805 4-May-2006 15:07
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JonC: I'm a bit surprised the markets have reacted so violently.


Why?  This is exactly the kind of dumb thing that the market does.  Most people have very little understanding of the UBL really means... hey, having read this thread on what is a very technical web site tells you this much.

Same thing happened more than once with Telstra in Australia over different issues.  Come Monday I think we're going to see some serious bouncing back. I think there's any number of traders who are driving the price down on the back of this news in preperation of making a quick profit on the bounce back.

Cheers Don




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Reply # 34806 4-May-2006 15:08
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Felix:

not sure about the broadband speeds though ;-)



Gotta be better than in NZ :-)




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Reply # 34807 4-May-2006 15:12
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Wow - what a great discussion this is. Very interesting. Over 2300 page views already.

A quick reminder of some forum rules...

  • If you don't agree with someone's post, attack the idea, not the poster.

    Posts will be removed and the user may be banned if:
    • the post contains profanity and/or adult material;



  • Nothing heavy, just keep being good, and mind your P's and Q's (its a family show).

    Im certainly not about to dump Telecom shares... would even buy some more if I was in a position to....


    P.S. Its interesting to note that if you dont specify a smiley, then you automatically use the OPs smiley...




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    Reply # 34808 4-May-2006 15:13
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    Telecom has done more to improve broadband than the government has done to improve roading, the security of electricity supply or hospital waiting lists.

    $4.5b was a lot of money on 1990 which is when LABOUR sold off Telecom. Again - sing along....

    'Labour sold Telecom and now they want it back...'




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    Reply # 34809 4-May-2006 15:14
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    Felix:

    or telling ANZ Bank they have to let customers from other banks be served by their tellers..



    I'm fairly sure that Visa or Mastercard members can go to other banks for cash advances, lost cards, found a card etc..providing that bank supports them. I've done it before on my travels in China and it does state that you can go into other member banks here in New Zealand.




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    Reply # 34810 4-May-2006 15:15
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    lol... perhaps!

    either way, I've voted labour my whole life... they will never get my vote again (well, not until they improve the weather and provide cheap cigars in schools)

    the econmic ideas of gareth morgan are stating to make sence to me...




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    Reply # 34811 4-May-2006 15:16
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    cokemaster:
    Felix:

    or telling ANZ Bank they have to let customers from other banks be served by their tellers..



    I'm fairly sure that Visa or Mastercard members can go to other banks for cash advances, lost cards, found a card etc..providing that bank supports them. I've done it before on my travels in China and it does state that you can go into other member banks here in New Zealand.

    Thats not government mandated though as far as I am aware... "other member banks"




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