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Topic # 82098 21-Apr-2011 18:13
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Hi all,

 

I have had an ADSL connection with TelstraClear for a couple of years and am still tied into a contract with them, however for the last year or so the performance has been (frankly) quite terrible and their customer service isn't much help. I have decided to go with the Orcon naked DSL plan (Purple+) which is supposed to be on LLU equipment and would like this to be on a secondary line running into the house. The connection is due to be provisioned/activated on the 28th. However two dilemmas :P

 

a). Not sure if there is a secondary line

What I would like to know is if there is an easy way to tell whether there is one wired from the central point where the line enters the house, I've done a bit of googling and searched the usual NZ forums and come across info about "pairs" etc however it's all pretty much gibberish to me. Or even if Orcon/the exchange can indicate whether there is one. The house is roughly 11 years old. Could anyone shed some light on this? And secondly;

 

b). Assuming there is a secondary line - the best way to get a jack point wired

I've gone around all the jack points in the house (5) and plugged in a phone to each, and there is a dial tone on all of them, I presume this indicates that they're all wired for the 1 active line in the house that we use currently. My question for this being (and presuming that there is a secondary line), what is the best way for a jack point to be installed, by the Orcon technician or an Electrician/possibly even Chorus tech?

 

Thanks in advance as any help is appreciated :)

 

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  Reply # 461516 22-Apr-2011 08:16
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Hi Skippy, do you know where your demarc is, being a 10-15yr old house normally it would be a small white box either up on the eave if overhead leadin (also would be near the leadin) or side of the house typically near the power meter box.

The lead in always has two pairs (unless MDU or commercial) currently only one pair will be connected to your house wiring.

As to who to get the wiring sort, either Chorus (via Orcon, they place the order on Chorus) or you can get a data literate sparkie or data cabler, but they can only sort from the demarc in. You will need a socket just for the 2nd service.

I presume you want the original DSL service to continue, normally one just has the one.

Could you say whats wrong with your Telstra service, they are normally fine, also post your modem line stats.

Cyril



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  Reply # 461554 22-Apr-2011 11:56
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Hi Skippy, do you know where your demarc is, being a 10-15yr old house normally it would be a small white box either up on the eave if overhead leadin (also would be near the leadin) or side of the house typically near the power meter box. 

The lead in always has two pairs (unless MDU or commercial) currently only one pair will be connected to your house wiring.

As to who to get the wiring sort, either Chorus (via Orcon, they place the order on Chorus) or you can get a data literate sparkie or data cabler, but they can only sort from the demarc in. You will need a socket just for the 2nd service.

Yep, have found the demarc box (white with Telecom wording on it) below the powerbox on the side of the house, will have a look a to see if there pairs are there later today. On that note, I'm interested as to how the tech actually wires it from there to a jack point, does this require access underneath the house/holes in walls etc for the cable to run through to the end point?

 

I presume you want the original DSL service to continue, normally one just has the one.


Correct, the Telstra connection will remain the same on the first line.

 

Could you say whats wrong with your Telstra service, they are normally fine, also post your modem line stats.



For over the past year the reliability/throughput that's been experienced has been pretty shocking, massive speed declines from the early afternoon through to midnight and massive latency jitter (200-1400ms), speeds averaging around 200-600kbit down 400-700kbit up (upload faster than the download who would've thought :P) and pings around 600-700ms. Here's a screenshot of my line stats for you, they aren't really that great but I'm not even getting close to these after 2pm.

 




 

Orcon has installed LLU equipment in the exchange here so I should be connected through that and hopefully sync rates/performance in general will increase, fingers crossed Smile I live around 2.1km from the exchange going via road distances.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 461555 22-Apr-2011 12:13
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Hi, your sync rate will not increase if the 44dB is a true reflection of the line attenuation (which by the way indicates 3km of cable), just changing to Orcon will not magically reduce the distance to the exchange as the exact same cable path will remain.

Have you put your address into the following link to see if a cabinet upgrade is due in your area?

www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/maps

In the demarc you will find both pairs of the leadin, there are two pairs in the same cable. As for the wiring from the demarc to the modem, its possible that a tech could utilise a spare pair in the current house wiring to enable the 2nd line, but if you house is easy to get under then I would recommend a new line is run from the demarc to where the modem is. Infact even if you stayed with your current setup I still would run a clean line to the modem and install a central filter at the demarc.

Note with NakedDSL you dont need a filter, but its a big help if there is no other wiring connecting to the line from the demarc to the modem, stubs or taps in the wiring upset DSL connections.

Have you done an isolation test as mentioned.

Cyril



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  Reply # 461562 22-Apr-2011 12:46
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cyril7: Hi, your sync rate will not increase if the 44dB is a true reflection of the line attenuation (which by the way indicates 3km of cable), just changing to Orcon will not magically reduce the distance to the exchange as the exact same cable path will remain.

Have you put your address into the following link to see if a cabinet upgrade is due in your area?

www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/maps

In the demarc you will find both pairs of the leadin, there are two pairs in the same cable. As for the wiring from the demarc to the modem, its possible that a tech could utilise a spare pair in the current house wiring to enable the 2nd line, but if you house is easy to get under then I would recommend a new line is run from the demarc to where the modem is. Infact even if you stayed with your current setup I still would run a clean line to the modem and install a central filter at the demarc.

Note with NakedDSL you dont need a filter, but its a big help if there is no other wiring connecting to the line from the demarc to the modem, stubs or taps in the wiring upset DSL connections.

Have you done an isolation test as mentioned.


Cyril


 

Yep, have looked up my address in the telecom wholesale website and my area isn't due to be cabinetised til November this year. I'll try an isolation test tonight too.

 

Cheers for your help Cyril :)

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  Reply # 461566 22-Apr-2011 12:52
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Hi, as I said moving to Orcons purple network wont shorten your line, your sync speeds and disconnection issues will remain. I note that the DSL connection has interleave off (ie mode Fast), ask Telstra to put it back to interleave, fast is not appropriate for a 44dB line and will cause continual dropouts, surprised?.

Also once you move to Orcons purple network you will/must move back to a wholesale connection again once the cabinet is installed otherwise you speeds and random disconnections will only be significantly worse as a result of you being still on the exchange with a cabinet nearby that will cause interference with exchange bourne connections.


Cyril



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  Reply # 461583 22-Apr-2011 13:53
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cyril7: Hi, as I said moving to Orcons purple network wont shorten your line, your sync speeds  I note that the DSL connection has interleave off (ie mode Fast), ask Telstra to put it back to interleave, fast is not appropriate for a 44dB line and will cause continual dropouts, surprised?.


 

Hi Cyril,

I understand that my sync speeds wont necessarily increase, I was meaning in the sense that sometimes even a new modem can change sync rates for a connection (seen this a couple of times on GPF threads), maybe different exchange equipment (LLU vs ASAM) could change the conditions. I'm not fussed if it doesn't Smile

 
and disconnection issues will remain.


I think you might've misread one of my previous posts, I'm not experiencing any disconnections/dsl/ppp dropouts, just massive speed declines and latency jitter which renders almost all services unusable (skype/web browsing/gaming etc)

Also once you move to Orcons purple network you will/must move back to a wholesale connection again once the cabinet is installed otherwise you speeds


Yep I understand this, this Orcon connection is just in the meantime 'til the area gets cabinetised



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  Reply # 461588 22-Apr-2011 14:05
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Forgot to add I took a closer look at the demarc box, couldn't get it open because the screws were a bit worn and the size of the screwdriver didn't help but coming out of the hole at the bottom of it, 2 cables (1 black 1 white) the white one going into the house and the black one going into the ground.

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  Reply # 461598 22-Apr-2011 14:52
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Telecom used those obnoxious 3 point screws on their junction boxes, you can probably get the right tool for them from your local hardware store or Jaycar/DSE.

The black cable from the ground will be the line from the street most likely, this will usually have two pairs (4 wires).

For a 2nd line they would take the 2nd unused pair from the end of the black cable in the box to where ever in the house you want it to go.

Where you want it to go will affect the amount of work involved.

 



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  Reply # 461709 23-Apr-2011 00:42
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Big thanks to Cyril and Ragnor for the helpful posts, consider me enlightened! :)

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  Reply # 462017 24-Apr-2011 20:14
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skippyy:
cyril7: Hi, as I said moving to Orcons purple network wont shorten your line, your sync speeds  I note that the DSL connection has interleave off (ie mode Fast), ask Telstra to put it back to interleave, fast is not appropriate for a 44dB line and will cause continual dropouts, surprised?.


 

Hi Cyril,

I understand that my sync speeds wont necessarily increase, I was meaning in the sense that sometimes even a new modem can change sync rates for a connection (seen this a couple of times on GPF threads), maybe different exchange equipment (LLU vs ASAM) could change the conditions. I'm not fussed if it doesn't Smile

 
and disconnection issues will remain.


I think you might've misread one of my previous posts, I'm not experiencing any disconnections/dsl/ppp dropouts, just massive speed declines and latency jitter which renders almost all services unusable (skype/web browsing/gaming etc)

Also once you move to Orcons purple network you will/must move back to a wholesale connection again once the cabinet is installed otherwise you speeds


Yep I understand this, this Orcon connection is just in the meantime 'til the area gets cabinetised


Cyril means that if your line stays on LLU once the area gets cabinetised you will have a new problem of far-end crosstalk creating fluctuating noise margins — this will cause speeds to slow down and possibly lots of disconnections depending on how bad it is. It might not be so bad since your line now is only 3km or so, but in some areas the lines have lots of taps etc that magnify the crosstalk effect of stronger signals close to your house.

I am wondering whether you took the screenshot above during the period you were having speed trouble? If so, it may improve once interleaving goes on and/or you get a central splitter on that phone line.

Also check for anything like phones, the Sky decoder or alarms etc that could be connected without filter, and if the screenshot you posted displays a slower downstream speed during the problems period then reboot it after removing everything from every phone outlet, and if its better then try to isolate which device caused the problem. You might have a faulty filter or one that has something plugged into the wrong port.

Different exchange equipment will make little difference if thats not at fault, which is the point of doing testing at your place. Usually the problem can be tracked to one device, but sometimes theres a combination of factors. Sky decoders and alarms are very common problems, and if you know its there then get a cabling guy to put in a central splitter at/close to the demarc.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 462212 25-Apr-2011 16:51
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Agreed don't sign up to a Orcon+ plan if your area is getting a cabinet, it will be more hassle than it's worth.

Really they shouldn't even offer you a + plan since they know a cabient it going in. 

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  Reply # 462228 25-Apr-2011 17:26
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Ragnor: Agreed don't sign up to a Orcon+ plan if your area is getting a cabinet, it will be more hassle than it's worth.

Really they shouldn't even offer you a + plan since they know a cabient it going in. 


My understanding is Orcon are still signing up people on ULL connections who will be cabinetised. They then seem to waste plenty of time moving people back when they all start complaining.

IMHO no ISP in NZ who offers ULL services should have ever signed up customers who were being migrated to cabinets for ULL connections. Some have adopted this policy, some haven't.



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  Reply # 462242 25-Apr-2011 18:31
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Thanks everyone for their replies.

Firstly, I'm not going to pursue the current TelstraClear performance as I've been doing this for the last 2 months - running speedtests, MTRs, isolation tests and what have you, nothing helps. All signs point to it most likely being wholesale network congestion and this is why I'm switching to LLU with Orcon.

To address everyones warning about LLU vs Cabinetisation coming up, there isn't much choice here sadly. If I'm right in saying that there is wholesale network congestion, cabinetisation will probably fix it, however that is in November this year, so that's ~7 months of paying for internet that isn't being recieved to a usable rate. The only ISP in my area doing LLU is Orcon and the rest are ASAM/ADSL1 only and are running on the wholesale network. So in the mean time (7 months til cabinetisation) I'll be on Orcon LLU, and once the area recieves cabinets, I'll switch over to that. If there are problems switching back - atleast I had good internet for 7 months prior Laughing

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  Reply # 462254 25-Apr-2011 19:29
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The congestion you are experiencing now has no relation to what happens once cabinetised a whole new network with dimensioning totally different is deployed.

Personally I would not go down the LLU route with cabinetisation looming, you only asking for a whole heap of hassle, but its your time and hassle, leave you with it, at least you have been advised.

Cyril



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  Reply # 462263 25-Apr-2011 20:08
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Hi cyril, are there any alternatives to wholesale/LLU? (cant get cable, wireless etc)

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