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BDFL - Memuneh
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Reply # 41126 14-Jul-2006 20:26
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barf: this is a common misconception MF, open source software does not expose your intellectual property unless you want it to.


Are you agreeing with me or pointing out that I share the misconception?

If agreeing, great. If thinking I share the misconception, please re-read my post:

and some don't understand all the different (and confusing) licensing types.


I think it makes it pretty clear that I know about the licensing issues and types.






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  Reply # 42658 28-Jul-2006 09:52
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$20million ?  Where'd you get that number from ?

If it is that number then I didn't bill enough time against them when I was helping configure it! :-)

 
 
 
 


BDFL - Memuneh
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Reply # 42662 28-Jul-2006 10:03
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  Reply # 42716 28-Jul-2006 13:57
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Interesting ... service provider sure tacked on a good premium then :-)

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  Reply # 42722 28-Jul-2006 14:27
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barf: I don't know if $20 mil is a good price but, I do wonder if Xtra know about free software-based solutions such as openfiler and iSCSI. Saw a (BIG) VMware ESX server network with an iSCSI SAN the other day, I diddn't dare do the maths to see how much they could have saved by using free software.

Slightly OT but I heard on the radio that more than 50% of new server installs worldwide are now Linux installs.


Only problem with open source software (I'm I know I'm generalising, but I feel it's completely true), with "open source" software you get feck all support, if it breaks, it's a case of "tough! it was beta anyway!" and then it's "well you;ve got the source, you fix it!"

Tends to turn companies off :-) Support costs!  Good support costs more!

I'm not saying open soure dosn;t get used,it just doesn't get used so much in important applications, and when it does it's usually backed up with a good support contract (like what Redhat do).

PS . I may be biased as I was part of the Xtra upgrade ;-)


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  Reply # 42756 28-Jul-2006 17:40

Im not sure if you've used much Linux software lately, but it isn't unreliable.

I thinkMoney should be spent on support, rather than licencing fees, thats what keeps us techies in business!

and bias forgiven, I have an open-source bias ;-)





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  Reply # 42786 29-Jul-2006 09:29
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barf: Im not sure if you've used much Linux software lately, but it isn't unreliable.

I thinkMoney should be spent on support, rather than licencing fees, thats what keeps us techies in business!

and bias forgiven, I have an open-source bias ;-)


Nah .. licensing fees is what keeps companies going and techies like us employed :-) .. cause it's "free" money, money that you can keep on claiming forever and a day and only have to write the software once ... support money is nice in that it's "free" money that you hope you never have to spend on the pesky fault fixing, but when you dip in you dip in hard for the main part.

I just grumble a lot when I see "open source" versions of applications that already exist (ie. blatant rip offs of the idea), people go "I can get a free version of that over there!" .. and don't think that a team of developers at a company will soon be jobless because their company looses money to the free version ... plus ripping off ideas is not innovation, it's copying .. the initial company dreamt up the concept and pushed to make it work ...

Lets just say I'm not much of a Penguin Hugger ;-)

But I don't like unneccassary licensing, where a product has a feature that used to be bundled in but then gets taken out and "licensed", or worse the extra licensed feature is the main selling point of the product!

On the unreliable side ... most open source software is OK .. it's just generraly unfinished, always in beta and alpha land, or the developers get bored and go off onto something more interesting leaving things orphaned.

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Reply # 42816 29-Jul-2006 19:18

Mark: I just grumble a lot when I see "open source" versions of applications that already exist (ie. blatant rip offs of the idea), people go "I can get a free version of that over there!" .. and don't think that a team of developers at a company will soon be jobless because their company looses money to the free version ... plus ripping off ideas is not innovation, it's copying .. the initial company dreamt up the concept and pushed to make it work ...


You'll need to cite some examples before I believe that!

Many Open Source projects have been ripped off by corporations who refuse to honour the GPL. Have you ever thought about the altruism developers must exhibit to release their hard work to the world, for free? Then Linksys or whoever-it-is-today pick up Linux and Netfilter, brand it and voila: reliable, featureful firmware for <insert_product_name_here> and the original developers never see a cent for it.

This is changing though, some honourable Japanese companies, and others who use Linux in their firmwares are donating some of their profits to the EFF and other organisations.

You cannot say Open Source rips of companies it is totally the other way around more often than not.




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  Reply # 42820 29-Jul-2006 20:28
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Mark: 

Nah .. licensing fees is what keeps companies going and techies like us employed :-) .. cause it's "free" money, money that you can keep on claiming forever and a day and only have to write the software once ... support money is nice in that it's "free" money that you hope you never have to spend on the pesky fault fixing, but when you dip in you dip in hard for the main part.

I just grumble a lot when I see "open source" versions of applications that already exist (ie. blatant rip offs of the idea), people go "I can get a free version of that over there!" .. and don't think that a team of developers at a company will soon be jobless because their company looses money to the free version ... plus ripping off ideas is not innovation, it's copying .. the initial company dreamt up the concept and pushed to make it work ...

Lets just say I'm not much of a Penguin Hugger ;-)

But I don't like unneccassary licensing, where a product has a feature that used to be bundled in but then gets taken out and "licensed", or worse the extra licensed feature is the main selling point of the product!

On the unreliable side ... most open source software is OK .. it's just generraly unfinished, always in beta and alpha land, or the developers get bored and go off onto something more interesting leaving things orphaned.


Mark your view is extreamly narrow.  I can say this because of my own background. 

I have come from where you are.  I understand your thinkng completely.  For a long time I agreed with you.  I'm not going to bash you for it.

You have a narrow view, and everyone here has to remember that narrow views often work very well in the IT business.  Keeping a clear focus, and then going for it, is what gets results.  Otherwise you risk spreeding to thin.

This weekend I've been trying to get the wifi card in my HP dv1000 laptop working under Ubuntu 6.06 Linux.

Half the people I talked to said to change distro.  25% said use a cli tool, 25% said use something else.  No one had the correct answer.

There is going to be a place for licenced software for some time to come.  The same way there is still a place for mainframes.

However, Open Source GPL software isn't free.  It cost someone to write.  There are many opportunities for software developers. 

Have a quick look at these products...  http://www.edimax.com.tw/

Their products now have embedded linux in them.  GPL software is allowing hardware manufactures to get new systems to market faster.

GPL software is leaving more money for user support and better hardware. 

Yes, I agree with you completely if you're thinking that this is going to change the way we do business in the programming business.  It is.

Have a look at the functionality on the web sites in my signature.  I'm growing the whole IT market with real solutions that are creating more work in the future for everyone. 

Cheers Don




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  Reply # 42859 30-Jul-2006 13:14
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DonGould: I'm not going to bash you for it.




Heee Heee BASH (Bourne Again SHell) wow, you crazy Linux guys.

Anyway what I was going to say was; A lot of open source software providers make most if not all their money from support. In many instances, because there is no "secret proprietary code" to figure out as to what the hell is it doing, it becomes easy to configure a system to do just what you want it to do, and nothing else. So you become your own support, as any IT admin should be. Imoso.

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  Reply # 42861 30-Jul-2006 14:07
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Old Grey Geek:   Heee Heee BASH (Bourne Again SHell) wow, you crazy Linux guys.

Anyway what I was going to say was; A lot of open source software providers make most if not all their money from support. In many instances, because there is no "secret proprietary code" to figure out as to what the hell is it doing, it becomes easy to configure a system to do just what you want it to do, and nothing else. So you become your own support, as any IT admin should be. Imoso.


The more I personally learn, the more interesting I find the whole culture, and it is a culture as much as anything...

People are choosing FLOSS, FOSS, OSS because of the culture.  Many in our industry have seen the wrong that has been done by so many and see how easy it is to become tained them selves and are now making a different choice.

This infact will add value to the closed source market for some time to come.  Simply because there are going to be less and less people who are willing to work in this space.  Money is very important to many people, but more people are realising that their sole is more important to them personally than the money.  Many are comming to the point where they just feel dirty working with products that foster filth - I'm sure that some of you are now laughing at me just for saying that when you consider just how many scams are powered by OSS as well...

IT and business managers are starting to understand how OSS works.

They're starting to realise that rather than paying a licence fee, they pay to get an upgrade written.  They're realising how cost effective that can be.  They're realising that if you want to keep a team focused on a project then you have to make is pay for them or 'yes' they will walk away from it eventually.  Same thing happens in the licenced software world thou, and if you think differently then you're just missinformed.

Support contracts are going to replace licencing fees as a way for us to generate passive income.

The fear expressed by some on this topic, is the loss of passive income from licence fees.

Yes, those days are coming to a close.

Change is in the wind. 

Cheers Don




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Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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