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780 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 491899 11-Jul-2011 10:21
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networkn:
DonGould:
webwat: I wonder if the best way to guarantee that ADSL is available would be to order naked ADSL on a second line under your own account, and to test it before buying the house. If ADSL cant be connected at the required speed for whatever reason, its a small cost to cancel the service and buy another house. The seller could agree a jackpoint being installed inside to test the service, and that gives you the certainty you need.


The best solution is to make your purchase subject to the supply of broadband.

The onus needs to be put plainly on the real estate agent.

"Hey mate, I'll buy this house if you can show me the water is connected, that the pressure on the shower is good and that I can use my laptop"

If I can't have a good hot shower, and use my laptop then I don't want to know, it's not like there's a shortage of housing in this country.




No vendor in their right mind would agree to this. No Real estate agent would agree to be responsible for such a thing if they had a brain in their head. If Telecom won't guarantee until connection, there is no chance anyone else would if they have any brains!



Isn't it ridiculous that noone can say whether a particular house can get broadband.  

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  Reply # 491902 11-Jul-2011 10:28
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Not really, The time between viewing a house and moving in might mean that all ports are now taken




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All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 491903 11-Jul-2011 10:28
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wreck90: See earlier in the thread as to why that isn't possible.

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  Reply # 491912 11-Jul-2011 10:39
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networkn: wreck90: See earlier in the thread as to why that isn't possible.


From what I can tell, to get ADSL you need a spare port in the cabinet, and a stable ADSL connection at the address.

A port can be reserved in advance ---this would require a simple reservations database. 

Secondly a technician can go to the address, hook up a test modem to the reserved port to verify ADSL connectivity  (this appears to be the best way to check connectivity). 

The cost can be met by the customer

The customer can included a clause in the sale & purchase/rental agreement that the sale/rental is conditional on telecom verifying port availability and ADSL connectivity.  Telecom's business insurance would cover any stupid mistakes they make. 





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  Reply # 491920 11-Jul-2011 10:51
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And if the buyer falls through and as a result of their reserved port causes another house sale to fail? Whats to stop Telstra or someone from reserving all the ports causing people to goto other networks?

It's all moot anyway, Most homes have multiple options that include non-copper based internet services anyway it's just that people still have it in their minds that Internet = Copper phone line required




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 



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  Reply # 491925 11-Jul-2011 10:57
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1. I propose regulation.

If an ISP is asked if they can supply service and they say no, then they may not supply service to that location for 12 months.

If they say yes, then they must supply service at their cost, what ever that cost and sell it at the normal price for such service.

Simple. Black and white.

2. If a real estate agent will not confirm that broadband is at the property then look for something else. Simply terminate the conversation then and there. It won't take many doing this, or a long time, to get the message though.

We want these guys on our side, fighting for better connectivity. Unless we bring the fight to their door they're not going to listen and help us.





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  Reply # 491934 11-Jul-2011 11:01
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1) Get real. This will never happen.
2) You'll spend a long time getting property like this. As has been repeatedly mentioned, the only way to guarantee, is to connect.

This thread has gone on long enough, what is being asked for isn't occurring any time soon. Back and forward discussions about it are pointless.

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  Reply # 491946 11-Jul-2011 11:16
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Beccara: And if the buyer falls through and as a result of their reserved port causes another house sale to fail? Whats to stop Telstra or someone from reserving all the ports causing people to goto other networks?

It's all moot anyway, Most homes have multiple options that include non-copper based internet services anyway it's just that people still have it in their minds that Internet = Copper phone line required


It is not moot to me ---give me an example of an mass-population option with the reliability , cost effectiveness, and speed of ADSL. 

Sensible rules ensure ports are only reserved for valid reason.

Your example is rare to the extreme. Even if this 'scenario' occurred, the process is entirely transparent and all parties know how many ports are available, who has reserved them, and the reservation expiry dates. What more could you want?





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  Reply # 491955 11-Jul-2011 11:34
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DonGould: 1. I propose regulation.

If an ISP is asked if they can supply service and they say no, then they may not supply service to that location for 12 months.

If they say yes, then they must supply service at their cost, what ever that cost and sell it at the normal price for such service.

Simple. Black and white.

2. If a real estate agent will not confirm that broadband is at the property then look for something else. Simply terminate the conversation then and there. It won't take many doing this, or a long time, to get the message though.

We want these guys on our side, fighting for better connectivity. Unless we bring the fight to their door they're not going to listen and help us.



Don, not for the first time, I think you're expecting far too much.

If i'm spending $300,000 on a house, i'm not sure how much the availability of residential grade adsl is going to factor into my thinking.  If the place has everything else going for it why would I exclude it on those grounds alone?

As I previously posted there's other options for broadband, and the situation is dynamic... which is why I think this post is unreasonable; regulation such as you describe above would disincentivise an ISP from resolving reasons they had to say no based on demand, eg, 'oh we've said no here to half a dozen potential customers, so we've established a market, but since we can't sell to them for 12 months, we'll spend our money elsewhere instead'.  Stupid.

I don't disagree that a little bit of innovation would make life a lot easier for folks looking to establish their broadband options.  However this is a ever-changing situation, for example the UFB will make ADSL as a service bottleneck less relevant, will it not?
If you're going to spend $100,000's on a house surely a couple of thousand dollars on the works required to get fibre from the street to your property is relatively minor (if it's indeed that important to your livelihood?)





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  Reply # 492031 11-Jul-2011 13:09
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networkn:
This thread has gone on long enough, what is being asked for isn't occurring any time soon. Back and forward discussions about it are pointless.


The UFB will change this situation as they must connect all people who ask and connect within a week or so if that property has been "passed". Also for residential connection the wholesaler (e.g. Chorus II) must do it for free - thought the ISP may have some connection charges.

So people in places like Whangarei where the first UFB houses are being connected, they can already make sure the house has got broadband before they buy it.

Also if you are buying a $300k house and you tele-work from home, then it will be a major point in the buying decision.



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  Reply # 492083 11-Jul-2011 15:00
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I agree UFB will help fix this problem for those in the fibre foot print.

BlakJak, I guess I'm just trying to find a more black and white solution. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to put clear pegs in the ground.

What I'm saying, is that if industry can't do it by it self then we need regulation for just force the issue so we don't end up having to watch crap TV. ;)

Regulation needs to be consistent across the market so that everyone is subject to the same rules and investors/innovators can drive off it.

In the case of the complainant in this issue, they went to Telecom who just strung them along.

I will agree though, that the expectations placed on Telecom are just unreasonable and members of the public need to just step up, take some ownership and figure it out.

It's just not as hard as the FG program makes out.







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  Reply # 492085 11-Jul-2011 15:03
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The answer is very black and white, it couldn't be more so. Telecom will guarantee you an adsl connection, when the tech finishes the install, nothing before that is guaranteed.

I provision connections for clients all the time and I have never been told any differently.



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  Reply # 492096 11-Jul-2011 15:29
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networkn: The answer is very black and white, it couldn't be more so. Telecom will guarantee you an adsl connection, when the tech finishes the install, nothing before that is guaranteed.

I provision connections for clients all the time and I have never been told any differently.


So you're basically saying that to be assured that a house can have ADSL, the current owner needs to place the order and have it connected.

Which puts me back to asking the estate agent to provide that confirmation.

Seems reasonable to me.







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  Reply # 492097 11-Jul-2011 15:35
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Yes that is what I am saying.

Why should the rea lestate agent do that? You are making it so much more complicated. Real Estate agents would then need to be trained on how to correctly provision broadband, and what happens if it gets provisioned but isn't filtered properly, or is too slow or isn't reliable because of a fault with the CPE. I mean seriously.

I am not sure why it seems reasonable to you. It seems entirely unreasonable to me.

At best the most you could hope for is that the sale be conditional on an internet connection being available, and this means that you come to an arrangement with the vendor directly and cover all costs, but I think most vendors would burst out laughing and shred your offer if the entire thing was based on that one premise.

Think about it from the vendors perspective, if you were them, you are going to allow someone who hasn't committed to purchase of your property to provision services on your behalf at your house?

I didn't think so.



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  Reply # 492134 11-Jul-2011 17:01
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networkn: Why should the rea lestate agent do that?


They want to sell the property.

You are making it so much more complicated. Real Estate agents would then need to be trained on how to correctly provision broadband, and what happens if it gets provisioned but isn't filtered properly, or is too slow or isn't reliable because of a fault with the CPE. I mean seriously.


Well that would be a complex way of doing it.

If I was the agent and you came to me with 'Don's attitude', I'd just pass the comment back to the vendor...  "I have a purchaser who will sign subject to your home having an active broadband connection."

I see no difference between this and the home being subject to having power or water or any number of normal sales conditions such as a valid LIM report, building inspection.  Terms and conditions are put on buildings all the time for a whole range of stuff. 

The agents don't sort it out, they just tell the vendor, who then engages the required party to sort it.  Some times that's a lawyer, some times is a builder, some times it's a banker, and now it might include a telecommunications consultant.


networkn:

I am not sure why it seems reasonable to you. It seems entirely unreasonable to me.

At best the most you could hope for is that the sale be conditional on an internet connection being available, and this means that you come to an arrangement with the vendor directly and cover all costs, but I think most vendors would burst out laughing and shred your offer if the entire thing was based on that one premise.

Think about it from the vendors perspective, if you were them, you are going to allow someone who hasn't committed to purchase of your property to provision services on your behalf at your house?

I didn't think so.


I think you're miss-understanding me. 

If I was the vendor, then yes I would look at my sale options.  If you were demanding bb and offering to pay less for my house than someone else who didn't care, then bye bye mate....  if on the other hand you were offering a better offer to me and it was just subject to my home having bb, then I'd get off my butt and get such connected for you.

If in the process I discovered that I can't even get BB after being offered it then I'd tell my estate agent the reasons why he's not going to make a commission from his prospect and leave it at that.

I doubt it will have to happen to often to estate agents before they start getting behind a lobby to make sure every home in the country can get great broadband, given how much commission is involved in a house sale.







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