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Ragnor
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  #511923 25-Aug-2011 16:04
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DonGould: 

"a dummy webpage which is located on servers at Trademe"

So comments about Truenet's server location seem silly.



Doh must have been before I had coffee!

Anyway iirc Trademe host in both Auckland and Wellington.

cws82us
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  #511924 25-Aug-2011 16:05
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the only why telstraclear is fast is they the  only isp that got cable inernet in new zealand so fair




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freitasm

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  #511927 25-Aug-2011 16:06
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While there are many variables one thing you folks are missing is user experience.

Users might not know all variables but they notice it when it comes to how fast a simple page loads.

Obviosuly all the speed in the world won't help if the page you are visiting loads in 2MB and takes forever to render.

But that is not the ISP problem, it is a content provider problem.

At least Truenet levels the field: one simple page, hosted on a webserver that in theory the entire country has access to.




 

 

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Gbowering
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  #511930 25-Aug-2011 16:11
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@TelstraClear: Imagine how terrible these results would have been if it measured Intl traffic performance, with your Proxy cache in the way borking it all up.  I bet they wouldn't have even included you in the results, rather some blurb reading "Multiple attempts to test this failed."


Hi Muppet,

The issue you refer to was a problem with an offshore Content Delivery Network provider. You can read my post on that here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=44&topicid=87678&page_no=2#505147

Also, Truenet did test and report on that at the time, and we have no problem at all with them doing so. The report is on their site and is also mentioned elsewhere here on Geekzone.

If you're having problems with your connection please PM me your account details and I'll get a specialist to look into it for you.

And, everyone, please enjoy our unmetered (for TelstraClear customers) Steam server Cool

Cheers, Gary


vexxxboy
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  #511940 25-Aug-2011 16:25
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will im on Snap and send results to Truenet , but i also have two sons that are on You Tube with 2 other pc's most hours of the day so download speeds are relative , but looking at my average results , in all areas my connection is always better than the average in NZ




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muppet
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  #511964 25-Aug-2011 17:08
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freitasm: While there are many variables one thing you folks are missing is user experience.


If all the users are loading the dummy page, I'd agree with you. But they're not.  Thus I can't see how this really measures a true user experience.

If they'd loaded up multiple sites around the place, I'd think it was a great test of the user experience.

@Gary:  Aware of the CDN problems.  But I often (not always) get much better performance during peak times bypassing your Intl cache.




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DonGould
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  #512003 25-Aug-2011 18:24
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muppet: Dumb people will be suckered into thinking it means something.


Well I must be a dumb person then :)

To me this information does mean something.  It means that in a like for like performance test produce by some place called 'TrueNet', TC came out on top and VF came out on the bottom.

To me, smart people will ask why.

What will be more interesting, is the next series of tests after some performance improvements in the VF network.

.2 and .3 performance... who cares?

But 2.5 seconds to load a page... yes, that's something I care about.

I'd like to see a test of some real world stuff....

25,000 tests against press.co.nz home pages, herald home page and trademe home page.

How quickly the page and all it's associated stuff gets to me.

www.press.co.nz, for example, is currently delivering me content from 6 different servers.  All that junk has to be delivered to my computer before firefox can render the page properly.  So what I'd like to know is how quickly all that crap gets to me.  Some comes from international servers, some off caches, some off static servers and some off dynamic servers.  It would require a number of dns look ups. 

So performance of the above, would be very interesting to compare between ISPs.






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DonGould
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  #512006 25-Aug-2011 18:26
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frizianz:
DonGould: From: https://www.truenet.co.nz/articles/fastest-isps-web-page-downloads
Where is Snaps core (Christchurch?).

Yes snap's core is based in Christchurch. Here is traceroute from CPIT (Snap).

Tracing route to truenet.co.nz [202.78.242.2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1      2      3      4     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  juniper-4350-internet-gateway.cpit.network [165.
84.106.1]
  5     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  185.114.124.202.static.snap.net.nz [202.124.114.
185]
  6     1 ms     1 ms      7     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  fx.chix.nzix.net [218.100.24.18]
  8     8 ms     7 ms     7 ms  fx3.wix.net.nz [202.7.1.175]
  9     8 ms     8 ms     9 ms  catalyst-it1.wix.net.nz [202.7.0.145]
 10     9 ms     8 ms     9 ms  fergus-router.catalyst.net.nz [202.78.240.57]
 11     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  truenet-drupal.catalyst.net.nz [202.78.242.2]

Trace complete.



err... missed the point? If you're an Auckland SNAP customer, then does your traffic got A -> C -> W -> C -> A?






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JohnButt
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  #512096 25-Aug-2011 20:51
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Hi, love to get the opportunity to respond to your questions, I have taken Don's as the most likely from someone who has read the article, so here are some answers, not sure how best to do this, the ability to quote using italics would be good so I used quote marks for his questions;

"But there's just a stack of stuff we don't know about how these tests are done, so what do they really mean? " The tests are consistent, every hour per probe, each probe is independent on the voluneer's LAN. Love to tell you more about the meaning, but that becomes commercial - yes there is more to come, this is just the beginning.

"As they're all done the same way (one assumes) it does tell us some really interesting stuff... but what about? " Yes all tests are to the trademe website based on their routing tables, making it a very accessible to all ISPs, I would hope ISPs take a connection to Trademe seriously, as one of the top content sites in the country.

# "wget www.trademe.co.nz/trueNetDummyPage.html" this is how we do it.

"First we need to resolve the url ... www.trademe.co.nz = what IP?" Sorry, we would prefer not to have lots of downloads of the page, it would interfere with ongoing tests. The page is referenced in the story on our site and you can see it and download it, although that is from our wellington site, hence not necessarily as quick.

"Who's DNS server are we using to do that? How far way is that dns server? How loaded is that DNS server? " DNS server is as advertised by the appropriate ISP

"I'm sure there are many good responses from TrueNet. Last time I talked to John I was very impressed with what they're doing. " Thanks, we are keen to do an exceptional job, and very keen on feedback

"How bit is the file? " see the page at www.truenet.co.nz/dummy_webpage - about 500k

"Are all the Vodafone customers in one area and it just happens that DSLAM is congested? In which case is that Telecom's fault? " No, they are distributed, but that is not much extra information, congestion could be at many bottlenecks

"Are ISPs watching the traffic and giving it priority? " Difficult to do, we have a facility to check against that possibility and will name any ISP that tried.

"Are Telstra's customer using more local data, so Telstra has provisioned better local capacity?

Are Vodafone's customers using more international capacity so capacity to local content is just deprioritised? " your guess is as good as mine

"How big is this web page anyway? Are TCP/HTTP ramp up issues impacting? " not a chance of impact on the tests, it is not a file, but a page, so rampup would never be completed with any part of the page - as you would expect.

I hope that provides answers for the specialists, as I've said earlier, I prefer to answer the technical questions here where the answers can be well understood.

Talkiet
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  #512112 25-Aug-2011 21:14
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Hi John, perhaps you'd indulge a couple of extra questions...

- How do you account for users that aren't running Wireless through your probe? Can you be sure someone isn't using the wireless at the same time as your test?

- Isn't the concentration of TCL Cable customers in Wellington likely to strongly bias the results for this single site test result in favour of them? As compared to other ISPs that will have customers significantly more distributed?

- Finally, you've got some pretty terrible rounding errors in your graph :-) Look at 0.2 vs 0.3 seconds. More like a 150% difference than 50%

Cheers - N




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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


JohnButt
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  #512128 25-Aug-2011 21:42
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No prob

Our probe runs wireless for any volunteer who turns it on and we encourage that, this enables us to avoid interfering with or being interfered by the traffic through that point.

We have a mix of Wellington & Christchurch TCL cable customers. We also have a small number of TCL customers on DSL, none of which are in CH or WN - the interesting point we made is that these have similar results, although the numbers of probes are small, so we excluded them.

As many say and I repeat, our test is to multiple sites around the country, wherever trademe is linked to the ISPs.

The rounding errors = mmmm What else do you do? the lines are correct although your guess is a bit far off, but if you round the digits for ease of readability, at these small numbers some distortion is going to occur. We are being fair, looking at the raw data the lines do represent the differences at this time.

freitasm

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  #512213 26-Aug-2011 08:46
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As for the comment about wireless, etc you should note that their router runs a modified firmware and will try to perform the tests at a time there's no traffic (so I'm told). This obviously is not always possible, but there's the attempt.





 

 

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Ragnor
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  #512485 26-Aug-2011 13:47
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DonGould:

err... missed the point? If you're an Auckland SNAP customer, then does your traffic got A -> C -> W -> C -> A?



Snap has had handover and equipment in Auckland for awhile now.

So for a user in Auckland on Snap it would likely go: User > Snap equipment in Skytower > APE > Trademe auckland servers (Datacom I think?)

Ragnor
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  #512500 26-Aug-2011 14:15
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JohnButt: No prob

Our probe runs wireless for any volunteer who turns it on and we encourage that, this enables us to avoid interfering with or being interfered by the traffic through that point.




John, consider this fairly common geek setup:

modem (half bridge) > router (gigabit, dual band, wireless N) > computers/devices etc

We can't put the truenet between the modem and router and it's not desirable to put it after the router and before the compute's/devices as it doesn't have a gigabit switch, dual band.. does it have wireless N I can't remember.

So in our case our Truenet tests are likely to be affected by whatever else is happening in the network.




JohnButt
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  #512570 26-Aug-2011 15:50
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It has a very nice 802.11n wireless controlled through the login panel. I use it as a better alternative to my Airports

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