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18079 posts

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  # 541071 4-Nov-2011 10:15
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Fair comments

My opinion is that we are trying to justify a law that has always existed, where copyright and the right to enforce that, has always existed. But it hardly ever was enforced. Now that is is, we don't like it.

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  # 541073 4-Nov-2011 10:20
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The industry needs to change it's business model. It is fine to take action to stop illegal activity but they need to also stop the demand to "steal" by providing services that meet the need.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


415 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 541075 4-Nov-2011 10:24
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I just edited my post on page 13 to reflect a little more - on what you guys currently just said above.

Yes we don't like the way the law has been enforced now - and that over the last couple of decades - the business models have not changed and the Movie and Music industry has not adapted to the digital age.

They could make lots of money if they made everything legally accessible - and yes I would pay!

As it is now, lots of people are paying for VPN services to get around being caught.  Can't these industries see if they made movie and music global - they would not be at a loss.

But I really feel they like the fact people illegally download - look at the publicity they get from it.




"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows





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  # 541080 4-Nov-2011 10:40
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Agree fully, the business model needs to change. You can't use that to justify piracy though. If the road should be an 80kph area, but it isn't, that can't justify speeding

6434 posts

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  # 541081 4-Nov-2011 10:44
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kiwipearls: I just edited my post on page 13 to reflect a little more - on what you guys currently just said above.

Yes we don't like the way the law has been enforced now - and that over the last couple of decades - the business models have not changed and the Movie and Music industry has not adapted to the digital age.

They could make lots of money if they made everything legally accessible - and yes I would pay!

As it is now, lots of people are paying for VPN services to get around being caught.  Can't these industries see if they made movie and music global - they would not be at a loss.

But I really feel they like the fact people illegally download - look at the publicity they get from it.



You can make this argument about the movie and TV industry, but not the music industry.

Fact is, music is easily available digitally through sources such as iTunes.

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 541083 4-Nov-2011 10:52
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kiwipearls:
StarBlazer:
And before everyone starts getting high and mighty on their soap box (not having a go at you tdgeek) but we have all infringed copyright at some point in our life - yes I think ALL to some extent.


Remember when we used to listen to the radio with our tapedecks and recorded our favourite songs and made music tapes.

nickb800:
We need to remember here that 1 song downloaded != 1 song not sold 



From my point of view, life situation, experiences...I've always "taped" my music from the radio way back in the day and shared with my friends (and yeah apparently that was copyright way back then that nobody knew about, even recording tv shows on VCR was considered copyright).  The only time I got a album was a Xmas present - it was bought for me, I never really bought music.  Maybe the odd cassingle. 

Now with technology, the way in which we share music has been via file sharing in this digital age.  Downloading MP3's off of many people around the world.

The music industry is not at a loss from me as I never bought from them anyways.

But we can go into debate over and over about this.

All I want to be able to do is:

1/ Have the ability to subscribe to a service from New Zealand to download TV shows and Movies.  I want to watch what I want when I want.

2/ The ability to subscribe to a proper service for downloading music in whichever format I want ie MP3, for Ipod etc.  currently Itunes does not have MP3 format to go on other devices.

  


Exactly my point.  Couldn't have put it better myself.

It's been said many times before - Look at MP3s.  10 years ago they were a dirty word.  Even then the industry tried to stop the format from taking hold, discs were exchanged and ripped.  Now it's a multi bajillion dollar business.  Do the same with video and stop pretending there are domestic markets.

Yes, I taped off the radio.  Dave Lee Travis telling you every week to stop taping off the radio because it's killing the music industry!  If I enjoyed an artist, then they would also be on my Christmas and birthday list.




Procrastination eventually pays off.


961 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 541085 4-Nov-2011 10:58
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NonprayingMantis:
kiwipearls: I just edited my post on page 13 to reflect a little more - on what you guys currently just said above.

Yes we don't like the way the law has been enforced now - and that over the last couple of decades - the business models have not changed and the Movie and Music industry has not adapted to the digital age.

They could make lots of money if they made everything legally accessible - and yes I would pay!

As it is now, lots of people are paying for VPN services to get around being caught.  Can't these industries see if they made movie and music global - they would not be at a loss.

But I really feel they like the fact people illegally download - look at the publicity they get from it.



You can make this argument about the movie and TV industry, but not the music industry.

Fact is, music is easily available digitally through sources such as iTunes.


Yes but in a closed market where you can't buy everthing at an equal and fair price.  I've never used iTunes don't have any Apple devices - but how much would it cost to download legally an album. 

Let's even say a double album such as the "Now That's what I call music 78456" as this is what my kids tend to listen to - how does it compare in price and quality? - genuine question!

TV and movie - there is no real legal option in NZ.




Procrastination eventually pays off.


 
 
 
 


283 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 541086 4-Nov-2011 11:01
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Some interesting comments and good debate in the thread, but I think people are a little hung up over downloading as the percieved offence, when the Rights owner groups are actually sending notices for uploading to other people (and yes, I understand that the two are fundamentally linked in P2P transactions).

It's a minor inaccuracy with the reporting in the media so far, but it does change the tone slightly, especially when you compare theft with copying.

It's not theft of the material involved they are chasing, it's 'theft' of the rights to distribute said material.

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  # 541088 4-Nov-2011 11:06
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Cymro: Some interesting comments and good debate in the thread, but I think people are a little hung up over downloading as the percieved offence, when the Rights owner groups are actually sending notices for uploading to other people (and yes, I understand that the two are fundamentally linked in P2P transactions).

It's a minor inaccuracy with the reporting in the media so far, but it does change the tone slightly, especially when you compare theft with copying.

It's not theft of the material involved they are chasing, it's 'theft' of the rights to distribute said material.


I am sure it mentioned downloading and uploading??? It cannot be just uploading?? 

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  # 541090 4-Nov-2011 11:13
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tdgeek:
Cymro: Some interesting comments and good debate in the thread, but I think people are a little hung up over downloading as the percieved offence, when the Rights owner groups are actually sending notices for uploading to other people (and yes, I understand that the two are fundamentally linked in P2P transactions).

It's a minor inaccuracy with the reporting in the media so far, but it does change the tone slightly, especially when you compare theft with copying.

It's not theft of the material involved they are chasing, it's 'theft' of the rights to distribute said material.


I am sure it mentioned downloading and uploading??? It cannot be just uploading?? 

Simplistically, if it's P2P it can't really be downloading, can it, unless the rights holders are the ones doing the uploading, which is feasible too I suppose.

6434 posts

Uber Geek


  # 541092 4-Nov-2011 11:19
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StarBlazer:
NonprayingMantis:
kiwipearls: I just edited my post on page 13 to reflect a little more - on what you guys currently just said above.

Yes we don't like the way the law has been enforced now - and that over the last couple of decades - the business models have not changed and the Movie and Music industry has not adapted to the digital age.

They could make lots of money if they made everything legally accessible - and yes I would pay!

As it is now, lots of people are paying for VPN services to get around being caught.  Can't these industries see if they made movie and music global - they would not be at a loss.

But I really feel they like the fact people illegally download - look at the publicity they get from it.



You can make this argument about the movie and TV industry, but not the music industry.

Fact is, music is easily available digitally through sources such as iTunes.


Yes but in a closed market where you can't buy everthing at an equal and fair price.  I've never used iTunes don't have any Apple devices - but how much would it cost to download legally an album. 

Let's even say a double album such as the "Now That's what I call music 78456" as this is what my kids tend to listen to - how does it compare in price and quality? - genuine question!

TV and movie - there is no real legal option in NZ.


Who determines a fair price?  You?   I think $1.99 per track is pretty good value.

You don't need apple devices to use the itunes store.

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 541096 4-Nov-2011 11:42
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NonprayingMantis:
StarBlazer:
NonprayingMantis:
kiwipearls: I just edited my post on page 13 to reflect a little more - on what you guys currently just said above.

Yes we don't like the way the law has been enforced now - and that over the last couple of decades - the business models have not changed and the Movie and Music industry has not adapted to the digital age.

They could make lots of money if they made everything legally accessible - and yes I would pay!

As it is now, lots of people are paying for VPN services to get around being caught.  Can't these industries see if they made movie and music global - they would not be at a loss.

But I really feel they like the fact people illegally download - look at the publicity they get from it.



You can make this argument about the movie and TV industry, but not the music industry.

Fact is, music is easily available digitally through sources such as iTunes.


Yes but in a closed market where you can't buy everthing at an equal and fair price.  I've never used iTunes don't have any Apple devices - but how much would it cost to download legally an album. 

Let's even say a double album such as the "Now That's what I call music 78456" as this is what my kids tend to listen to - how does it compare in price and quality? - genuine question!

TV and movie - there is no real legal option in NZ.


Who determines a fair price?  You?   I think $1.99 per track is pretty good value.

You don't need apple devices to use the itunes store.


But I could buy the Now 37 album from Marbecks for $31.49! It has 36 tracks on it which equates to 87c per track.  Still think $1.99 is a fair price?  Even cheaper at CD Wow.

Okay compare it to Rihanna's Loud which only has 11 tracks for $15.99 at CD Wow $1.45 per track - even her new album is $16.99 for 10 tracks $1.69/track.

No, I don't think $1.99 is a fair price - do you?  Especially now it's legal to buy an album and convert it to play on whatever device I want to and in whichever format/quality I prefer.




Procrastination eventually pays off.


415 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 541098 4-Nov-2011 11:51
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NonprayingMantis:
kiwipearls: I just edited my post on page 13 to reflect a little more - on what you guys currently just said above.

Yes we don't like the way the law has been enforced now - and that over the last couple of decades - the business models have not changed and the Movie and Music industry has not adapted to the digital age.

They could make lots of money if they made everything legally accessible - and yes I would pay!

As it is now, lots of people are paying for VPN services to get around being caught.  Can't these industries see if they made movie and music global - they would not be at a loss.

But I really feel they like the fact people illegally download - look at the publicity they get from it.



You can make this argument about the movie and TV industry, but not the music industry.

Fact is, music is easily available digitally through sources such as iTunes.


Yes but in my post on page 13, I said Itunes does not come in mp3 format for other devices. 




"In the real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems" - The Book of Counted Sorrows





Senility Guild

 


80 posts

Master Geek


  # 541101 4-Nov-2011 11:55
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StarBlazer:
NonprayingMantis:
StarBlazer:
NonprayingMantis:
kiwipearls: I just edited my post on page 13 to reflect a little more - on what you guys currently just said above.

Yes we don't like the way the law has been enforced now - and that over the last couple of decades - the business models have not changed and the Movie and Music industry has not adapted to the digital age.

They could make lots of money if they made everything legally accessible - and yes I would pay!

As it is now, lots of people are paying for VPN services to get around being caught.  Can't these industries see if they made movie and music global - they would not be at a loss.

But I really feel they like the fact people illegally download - look at the publicity they get from it.



You can make this argument about the movie and TV industry, but not the music industry.

Fact is, music is easily available digitally through sources such as iTunes.


Yes but in a closed market where you can't buy everthing at an equal and fair price.  I've never used iTunes don't have any Apple devices - but how much would it cost to download legally an album. 

Let's even say a double album such as the "Now That's what I call music 78456" as this is what my kids tend to listen to - how does it compare in price and quality? - genuine question!

TV and movie - there is no real legal option in NZ.


Who determines a fair price?  You?   I think $1.99 per track is pretty good value.

You don't need apple devices to use the itunes store.


But I could buy the Now 37 album from Marbecks for $31.49! It has 36 tracks on it which equates to 87c per track.  Still think $1.99 is a fair price?  Even cheaper at CD Wow.

Okay compare it to Rihanna's Loud which only has 11 tracks for $15.99 at CD Wow $1.45 per track - even her new album is $16.99 for 10 tracks $1.69/track.

No, I don't think $1.99 is a fair price - do you?  Especially now it's legal to buy an album and convert it to play on whatever device I want to and in whichever format/quality I prefer.


The album is cheaper because you are buying in bulk, not per song.

You can buy a 12 pack of beer cheaper than you can buy a bottle.

Some brands of beer are cheaper than others, same with music.

If you break into a brewery and steal the recipe, brew your own beer and give it to your mates, it is still theft. You might not have stolen their beer but you have taken something you are not legally entitled to take.

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  # 541107 4-Nov-2011 12:15
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My daughter buys the odd song on my Apple ID for her Touch. For those that just want the tracks they like, it will be cheaper to buy one or two or three tracks, rather than CD after CD.

If you want the CD worth of tracks, you can check the CD price and the online album price and choose the cheapest. Seems a good set of choices to me.

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