Time of Day Comparison by TrueNet

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#528473 3-Oct-2011 12:19

Does anyone have a quick explanation of why per user dimensioning is a good idea (from telecom wholesales perspective that is, everyone else seems to suffer from it)
Does it just mean they don't have to have as much total bandwidth? Sounds crap if so.

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insane

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#528513 3-Oct-2011 13:41

eXDee: Does anyone have a quick explanation of why per user dimensioning is a good idea (from telecom wholesales perspective that is, everyone else seems to suffer from it)
Does it just mean they don't have to have as much total bandwidth? Sounds crap if so.

I believe it was originally to protect the old wholesale network which isn't/wasn't able to carry the kinds of traffic which users would want to use.

Then of course they would have wanted to protect Frame Relay/UNS etc which was sold at a premium.

I think the commerce commissions ruling on UBS back in the days also only required a 32kbps per user speed.

I don't understand why they would limit the handover limits now though, specially not with EUBA given that it transverses their new network.

Ragnor

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#528526 3-Oct-2011 14:10

It really depends which services you are talking about....

Line > DSLAM (Cabinet/Exchange) > Backhaul > Regional Aggregation Point > Backhaul > Handover Point > ISP Network

There are multiple difference access service options: EBUA, BUBA, UBS and older
There are multiple different backhaul service options: Tail extension, p2p backhaul, uba backhaul, ubr backhaul
There are multiple different handover service options: Fibre Only (for p2p backhaul), GigE for EUBA/HSNS, GigE for BUBA/UBS, ATM for older stuff (ADSL1 etc).

Most backhaul options have a 32kbps CIR which is a minimum guaranteed amount but actual/burstable rates are whatever capacity is available which is lots higher of course.

The dimensioning as an aggregate/hard limit only applies to the handover connection to the ISP and only on some options ie: the old ones. They have been talking about dimensioning on GigE for EUBA for ages and have delayed it every quarter.

Hard to see how they could get away with adding/enforcing it now, smells like artificial scarcity. It would also effect Telecom Retail customers just as much as other ISP's which wasn't the case in the past when Telecom Retail was using different wholesale services to the other ISP's.

itey

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#528754 3-Oct-2011 22:14

hrmm this is very interesting. I've been with maxnet now for over 2 years, and I too have noticed much slower speeds in the last 6 months, I'm glad that this data agrees with me.

I signed up to maxnet because although they were more expensive, they also had a good reputation for a high quality of service i.e. download speed. Obviously HAD is the key word here. I guess its time to go isp hunting.

JohnButt

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#528889 4-Oct-2011 10:36

DonGould: Guys this is the reason we need to get behind TrueNet.

It's metrics like this that John can put out, that in turn help the business managers in the ISPs to justify to their bosses why they need to add more capacity to things.

So if you know someone you could give a probe to, and it's in an area that John's looking for, see if you can make the connection.

Also pass this information around your non geek friends as much as you can. Pictures speak volumes.

D

I have just completed an audit of volunteers and we are surprised to find a big shortage of Vodafone & TelstraClear DSL volunteers in the South, does the SI know about these ISPs?

The other ISPs in the SI are now well represented, however we are noticing a small shortage of most ISPs in the central NI.

EZAS

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#530738 7-Oct-2011 22:10

John,

The last truenet page I saw comparing ISP's didn't include Maxnet due to the number of probes you had for them (Can you please send me information on how the ISP's with les than 5 probes performed in the previous test? Please.

it was this one https://www.truenet.co.nz/articles/fastest-isps-web-page-downloads

coffeebaron

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#530809 8-Oct-2011 09:44

insane:I think the commerce commissions ruling on UBS back in the days also only required a 32kbps per user speed.

I don't understand why they would limit the handover limits now though, specially not with EUBA given that it transverses their new network.

When the max ADSL connection was 3.5 Mbps. Now with a max around 21Mbps, don't you think this figure should be 192Kbps?

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#530828 8-Oct-2011 10:58

EZAS: John,

The last truenet page I saw comparing ISP's didn't include Maxnet due to the number of probes you had for them (Can you please send me information on how the ISP's with les than 5 probes performed in the previous test? Please.

it was this one https://www.truenet.co.nz/articles/fastest-isps-web-page-downloads

The September table is in production :-) Will have to check on probe numbers to decide if it is reliable enough to provide Maxnet details.

sbiddle

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#530898 8-Oct-2011 13:58

coffeebaron:
insane:I think the commerce commissions ruling on UBS back in the days also only required a 32kbps per user speed.

I don't understand why they would limit the handover limits now though, specially not with EUBA given that it transverses their new network.

When the max ADSL connection was 3.5 Mbps. Now with a max around 21Mbps, don't you think this figure should be 192Kbps?

Average usage hasn't increased ~7 fold in that time so you could argue that sort of figure is unecessary.

Morph

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#530910 8-Oct-2011 14:50

sbiddle:
coffeebaron:
insane:I think the commerce commissions ruling on UBS back in the days also only required a 32kbps per user speed.

I don't understand why they would limit the handover limits now though, specially not with EUBA given that it transverses their new network.

When the max ADSL connection was 3.5 Mbps. Now with a max around 21Mbps, don't you think this figure should be 192Kbps?

Average usage hasn't increased ~7 fold in that time so you could argue that sort of figure is unecessary.

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DonGould

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#530969 8-Oct-2011 18:42

coffeebaron: figure should be 192Kbps?

I'm just listening to the radio on Telstra free zones...

Router is averaging more than that.

Who knows what usage I'm pulling now because it's not metered.

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cbrpilot

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#531737 10-Oct-2011 23:44

eXDee: Does anyone have a quick explanation of why per user dimensioning is a good idea (from telecom wholesales perspective that is, everyone else seems to suffer from it)
Does it just mean they don't have to have as much total bandwidth? Sounds crap if so.

From a Telecom Wholesale perspective its a great idea. Average (peak) per subscriber traffic has been growing at a fast rate year on year and continues to do so. More bandwidth used (i.e. more investment required) and corresponding increase in money coming in sounds like a good way to run a business into the ground. You offer more bandwidth to those willing to pay for it. It's as simple as that.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

Ragnor

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#531968 11-Oct-2011 15:21

cbrpilot:

From a Telecom Wholesale perspective its a great idea. Average (peak) per subscriber traffic has been growing at a fast rate year on year and continues to do so. More bandwidth used (i.e. more investment required) and corresponding increase in money coming in sounds like a good way to run a business into the ground. You offer more bandwidth to those willing to pay for it. It's as simple as that.

CIR with a PIR of whatever is available would be fair enough (like how backhaul and tail extensions work) but the dimensioning on the handover links (the old ATM ones) is pure artificial scarcity.

Regulation is supposed to prevent this kind of problem and actually it seems to be working since Telecom Retail has to use the same Telecom Wholesale services as everyone else now.... they haven't applied dimensioning yet on the ethernet EUBA/HSNS handover connections.

$5 on the next Wholesale informer to say it's delayed for another quarter like the previous delays TBH.

webwat

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#534029 16-Oct-2011 18:04

From Wholesale's perspective, it must seem pretty sensible to prevent ISP selling plans that create congestion on shared infrastructure. To the rest of us it just looks like an inbred viewpoint that we have come to expect from monopolies.

I reckon the choices with EUBA is the right direction for Wholesale to be taking, and I hope they realise that selling backhaul and handovers for better prices will be important with the UFB rollout, so why not start selling existing services for lower prices too.

Time to find a new industry!

sbiddle

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#534041 16-Oct-2011 18:36

Ragnor:Regulation is supposed to prevent this kind of problem and actually it seems to be working since Telecom Retail has to use the same Telecom Wholesale services as everyone else now.... they haven't applied dimensioning yet on the ethernet EUBA/HSNS handover connections.

Regulation is the reason we have dimensioning - because the Commerce Commission wrote the rules.

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