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codyc1515
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  #544448 11-Nov-2011 23:50
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I fail to see how using more of the already strained capacity of, most, ISPs in NZ will make prices go down. If anything they will go up to maintain the existing speeds you are used to.

ojala
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  #545333 14-Nov-2011 20:07
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Having a good range of vibrant ISPs that are making money means that they'll compete with each other by installing new faster equipment that empowers better service delivery and more data, in my view.


I have a very long distance view to the issue but I've been wondering about the future of all these small ISP's.

If I compare the situation to the development here, the ISP business in NZ is similar to what is was here in late 90's.  Local ISP's here and there, some bigger, some smaller, many also covered other aspects of IT.  With the arrival of DSL, they pretty much disappeared -- they merged, became bigger ISP's, perhaps started offering cellular services as well, were acquired by the telco's.  Obviously one can't compare the situation 1:1 to NZ.

There are some "mom-and-pop ISP's" left but their competitive edge is just being more human than the big telco's.

The big telco's dominate the market and what is driving the development is working competition between the big telco's and regulator that keeps eye on the market and keeps is competitive.  In case of copper you pretty much always have a few DSL choices, and if you're lucky you also have choice of cable-TV interweb or even fiber (however both are limited to the ISP that owns the cable or fiber).

In a country of 5 mil, we have two telco's with turnover around 2.6 billion nzd, one 1.2 billion nzd, and the rest are in the <200 million nzd category (usually operating more regionally).


I tend to lean to the direction that small ISP's aren't going to last.  At the end the service is supposed to be "it just works" and the bigger you are, the easier you can digest new technology and keep your network up to date -- if you have the will to do so and keep doing it all the time.  If the market is working properly, the competition should be virile enough.


 
 
 
 


DonGould

3892 posts

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  #586431 24-Feb-2012 19:57
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43.  Stop signing up for "throttled after cap plans"

This one is for you Stephen... though you do make a good point. 

In my view, but signing up for throttled plans we are dictating the way people will use the net aren't we?  They go hell for leather for a first few days, then they just live with slow dsl for the rest of the month? 

So sign up for 1gb throttled you can pull how much data over 30 days once it drops to 64kbits/s?

Are these users really running at these speeds for the rest of the month or are they really just using another service to get the fast on the spot data using a mobile service?

I get the whole bill shock argument... but by trying to protect our selves by signing for a capped plan with throttling are we empowering the providers to keep us on smaller limits and keeping our usage down?

44.  Demand Annex M

Seems like Stephen was complaining about the upload as much as the down load.

ADSL2+ can do more than 1mbit up, it can do 2 and does in Australia.  But we just don't know about it and don't use it.  I think I read the other day that you can now order it from Chorus, I could be wrong.

I'd sooner have 15/2 than 16/1... 

Tell me this... how many people like to just listen to their mum yap at them without having any right of reply?  Yet you tolerate x/1mbits giving you little power to push 1's and 0's?

45.  Get people using VDSL2

It's here now.  How many of you have got it?  How many of you have been pushing everyone you know to use it?





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kyhwana2
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  #586444 24-Feb-2012 20:40
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DonGould:
45.  Get people using VDSL2

It's here now.  How many of you have got it?  How many of you have been pushing everyone you know to use it?



At the Future Broadband thing, a study showed people were only willing to pay $10-20 more a month.. VDSL2 is $50 on top of the normal ADSL2 pricing!


antoniosk
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  #586445 24-Feb-2012 20:47
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kyhwana2:
DonGould:
45.  Get people using VDSL2

It's here now.  How many of you have got it?  How many of you have been pushing everyone you know to use it?



At the Future Broadband thing, a study showed people were only willing to pay $10-20 more a month.. VDSL2 is $50 on top of the normal ADSL2 pricing!



and: every single one needs a chorus survey and almost always, some network remediation to get working. Which means more $$$ someone has to pay. 

We won't even get started on what happens when a copper sheath is full of wires screaming vdsl2, on a network where no-one is managing inteference.... 




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DonGould

3892 posts

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  #586451 24-Feb-2012 21:09
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kyhwana2:   At the Future Broadband thing, a study showed people were only willing to pay $10-20 more a month.. VDSL2 is $50 on top of the normal ADSL2 pricing!


See 10, 19, 26, 29, 30, 38, 41






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P1n3apqlExpr3ss
830 posts

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  #586453 24-Feb-2012 21:18
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Im sure this had been mentioned already but I remember you telling others to also suggest their own ideas...

I'm on one of Actrix's plans that allow unlimited uploading, because of this I've been seeding Raspberry Pi image torrents for the last week since they were available. Although it only really goes at about 70 KB/s at best when there's heaps of local leechers, most of the time it hovers around 8 KB/s... Should get better as more images are put up!

 
 
 
 


DonGould

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  #586454 24-Feb-2012 21:18
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antoniosk:  and: every single one needs a chorus survey and almost always, some network remediation to get working. Which means more $$$ someone has to pay.

 
I have a new TV on the wall on 40 months interest free. 

Is Chorus working with retailers to provide a payment system for this work to be done?


antoniosk: We won't even get started on what happens when a copper sheath is full of wires screaming vdsl2, on a network where no-one is managing inteference.... 


Well this really reads like a reason to have UFB demand driven doesn't it.  If a cabinet starts to go pear shape then there's reason to push fibre.  See 7.






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DonGould

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  #586457 24-Feb-2012 21:35
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P1n3apqlExpr3ss:  I'm on one of Actrix's plans that allow unlimited uploading, because of this I've been seeding


I watched a bit of the bb conf thing until it dropped out for me and wouldn't play any more, but a bit I did catch was a guy commenting about how ppl down load the internet all day and night because they can and have this cap they feel they have to use up because they're paying for it.

I don't know much about p2p at all other than feeling that it's a good technology but does need some people management in my view.

It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but people are just down loading heaps of stuff so they have it on call for when and if they might want to watch it because they just can't get it quickly when they do actually want it.

In Australia it seems routine to have big caps, but also the average speed is much slower than ours is and 2mbit is common on dsl.  So it's not quick enough to just pull data when you want it. 

So does this mean that when we get 10mbit throughput, will we start to see people using less p2p all the time for needless downloading but using it more for on demand?






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codyc1515
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  #586460 24-Feb-2012 21:40
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The only way to make NZ internet better, cheaper and with bigger caps is quite simply to just disconnect it and refuse to pay for the service until they improve it and make a big deal about it. If enough people did this then they would be forced to drop the price otherwise they would lose a significant amount of money.

DonGould

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  #586619 25-Feb-2012 12:24
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codyc1515: The only way to make NZ internet better, cheaper and with bigger caps is quite simply to just disconnect it and refuse to pay for the service until they improve it and make a big deal about it. If enough people did this then they would be forced to drop the price otherwise they would lose a significant amount of money.


That is an approach that works as well.  See:   6, 7, 8, 10, 18, 19, 26

We do have to stop using old technology so that the carriers can turn it off and stop supporting it, I agree.

I also agree with what you're implying about providers not passing on savings and the value in just moving to another provider to get better value.

Often the only message that sales mangers and CEOs seem to hear is "Churn Numbers".  Customer loyalty and good will don't seem to be values that CFOs are able to translate in a way that CEO's understand perhaps. 

I don't really know....  I'm just throwing all this out there in the hope that people will think about it and apply what they think works.

Cody I agree with you...  if just disconnecting and going somewhere else is something you can do and works for you then yes, churn.

I've spent part of the past 12 months trying to do the 'right thing' by my provider, telling them what value I'm looking for, asking to talk to people who have some clue in the space and been meet by nothing but frustration so I've all but given up in that space and got focused on just doing exactly what you're suggesting, but that's not easy when you just don't have the choice of providers that there is the perception out there of.

D





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