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  Reply # 1528684 8-Apr-2016 19:02
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What about if you plug in actual displayport monitors? I know someone with some form of surface doing that and it seems to be fine for them.





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  Reply # 1528769 8-Apr-2016 21:17
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MackinNZ:

 

The biggest problem with the Surface Pro tablets seems to be not so much the devices themselves as much as the dock.

 

The new style dock for the Surface Pro 3/4 is terrible, especially if you are trying to drive two external monitors.  That is a big part of problem that OP is talking about.  If you just use the device on its own it's not too bad, but once you plug it into that dock...

 

Even the SP3 connected to a dock with even one external monitor could be problematic, but try driving two monitors (which requires a third party adapter) and it all turns to crap.  It will frequently decide not light up one, or both, of the monitors requiring rebooting the tablet, turning monitors off/on several times until it decides to behave again.

 

The SP4 dock has two mini-DisplayPort sockets, but if you plug in two DVI monitors (which require third-party active mini-DisplyPort to DVI adapters) and you're supporting a customer with this configuration, you can expect frequent support calls and a very frustrated customer.

 

As Networkn had already pointed out, other vendors like HP produce a much more reliable device that so far doesn't seem to have the issues that the SP's do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems strange that your business customer is using monitors with DVI only, all business class monitors (and most consumer one now) I've seen have display port. 

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of the new dock, as I liked the old "dock" style, rather then a breakout box, but then I suppose that would mean having to create one dock for Surface Pro's and the breakout box for Surface Books.






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  Reply # 1528861 9-Apr-2016 07:48
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networkn:

 

richms:

 

nathan:

 

We sell an Enterprise warranty in NZ that allows the customer to get a new device so they can destroy the old one to physically destroy their data.

 

Its that trade off of having the thinnest Intel Core i device on the market.  Also visible screws are ugly.

 

 

Well that's not wasteful at all...

 

 

 

 

In the immortal words of Meatloaf... You took the words right out of my Mouth!

 

 

 

 

these are the same businesses/govt departments that will drill holes thru their iPads when they break or get damaged.




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  Reply # 1529097 9-Apr-2016 17:32
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MackinNZ:

 

The biggest problem with the Surface Pro tablets seems to be not so much the devices themselves as much as the dock.

 

The new style dock for the Surface Pro 3/4 is terrible, especially if you are trying to drive two external monitors.  That is a big part of problem that OP is talking about.  If you just use the device on its own it's not too bad, but once you plug it into that dock...

 

Even the SP3 connected to a dock with even one external monitor could be problematic, but try driving two monitors (which requires a third party adapter) and it all turns to crap.  It will frequently decide not light up one, or both, of the monitors requiring rebooting the tablet, turning monitors off/on several times until it decides to behave again.

 

The SP4 dock has two mini-DisplayPort sockets, but if you plug in two DVI monitors (which require third-party active mini-DisplyPort to DVI adapters) and you're supporting a customer with this configuration, you can expect frequent support calls and a very frustrated customer.

 

As Networkn had already pointed out, other vendors like HP produce a much more reliable device that so far doesn't seem to have the issues that the SP's do.

 

 

 

We have two SP3 and two SP4 - we use docks and dual screens for all. The SPs are connected to the screens via Surface-branded display port to HDMI connectors. The SP3 are less problematic for dual screens - one is connected via the SP3 dock and the other via the SP3 display port out. Apart from having to plug the additional screen into the SP every time you dock, the set up seems pretty robust.

 

The SP4s via the new dock are a nightmare - it's seems to be totally random luck whether you will have none, one or two screens working on docking. You can usually get the screens working if you are prepared to tinker and wait for hard resets etc


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  Reply # 1529308 10-Apr-2016 06:56
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I'm using my i5 as little as possible. I won't (and don't when asked) recommend them for business or personal use. I'm using my 3 year old iPad at home. Which the Surface was supposed to be replacing.

 

I'm still waiting for the shop to get a 3rd i5 in (it's taking this long because supply is tight they tell me but there was supposed to be some more in last week- I will call them Monday). I expect its pen not to work either, frankly. I'll be happily amazed if it does. For those who may not have read my other posts on this it isn't a faulty pen. I've tried 4 pens, a new battery and 2 i5 tablets.

 

This is the most trouble I have ever had with any purchase I've ever made bar none and a huge waste of time. I researched this purchase carefully so I was aware of some issues I could put up with but not this one!

 

The thing that really bothers me is that it's exactly what I want when it works. I'm hugely disappointed above all.

 

I'm not using a dock so have had none of those problems. I also have had no BSODs. I have had two black screens on boot requiring a hard restart after shutdown just recently (one of those it looks like it didn't shut down correctly as it was both hot and the camera light was on when I opened the cover when I got home though the screen was black). And an issue where after the Surface slept it had limited connectivity to internet over wifi at a worksite where the device had an ip address reserved by MAC address and was then forwarded through the server firewall. Since it never did that when set on hibernate I guess something shuts down to conserve power and doesn't wake again. I haven't experimented to check. I just removed the reservation and the firewall setting and used the regular proxy settings. I have no issues on regular home wifi since the wifi firmware fix (used to be a speed issue on some routers including mine). The battery life is not good either. My estimate is 5 Working hours, maybe 6. It's a bit hard to tell as I just make it a habit to plug it in when possible so I never let it run down completely. That's on default power settings but with wifi unticked so it turns off to conserve power when asleep.

 

I could put up with those occasional, irregular glitches and firmware has fixed previous wifi and most sleep problems but whatever (software or hardware) keeps making the pen stop writing and Device Manager flicker when it happens is enough to ruin the device for me because one of the main points of purchase was using the pen in lieu of  a mouse or keyboard when in use as a tablet.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1529323 10-Apr-2016 09:18
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JayADee:

 

I'm using my i5 as little as possible. I won't (and don't when asked) recommend them for business or personal use. I'm using my 3 year old iPad at home. Which the Surface was supposed to be replacing.

 

I'm still waiting for the shop to get a 3rd i5 in (it's taking this long because supply is tight they tell me but there was supposed to be some more in last week- I will call them Monday). I expect its pen not to work either, frankly. I'll be happily amazed if it does. For those who may not have read my other posts on this it isn't a faulty pen. I've tried 4 pens, a new battery and 2 i5 tablets.

 

This is the most trouble I have ever had with any purchase I've ever made bar none and a huge waste of time. I researched this purchase carefully so I was aware of some issues I could put up with but not this one!

 

The thing that really bothers me is that it's exactly what I want when it works. I'm hugely disappointed above all.

 

I'm not using a dock so have had none of those problems. I also have had no BSODs. I have had two black screens on boot requiring a hard restart after shutdown just recently (one of those it looks like it didn't shut down correctly as it was both hot and the camera light was on when I opened the cover when I got home though the screen was black). And an issue where after the Surface slept it had limited connectivity to internet over wifi at a worksite where the device had an ip address reserved by MAC address and was then forwarded through the server firewall. Since it never did that when set on hibernate I guess something shuts down to conserve power and doesn't wake again. I haven't experimented to check. I just removed the reservation and the firewall setting and used the regular proxy settings. I have no issues on regular home wifi since the wifi firmware fix (used to be a speed issue on some routers including mine). The battery life is not good either. My estimate is 5 Working hours, maybe 6. It's a bit hard to tell as I just make it a habit to plug it in when possible so I never let it run down completely. That's on default power settings but with wifi unticked so it turns off to conserve power when asleep.

 

I could put up with those occasional, irregular glitches and firmware has fixed previous wifi and most sleep problems but whatever (software or hardware) keeps making the pen stop writing and Device Manager flicker when it happens is enough to ruin the device for me because one of the main points of purchase was using the pen in lieu of  a mouse or keyboard when in use as a tablet.

 

 

 

 

What is the fault you are having with the pen, you not working at all?






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  Reply # 1529326 10-Apr-2016 09:23
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JayADee:

I'm using my i5 as little as possible. I won't (and don't when asked) recommend them for business or personal use. I'm using my 3 year old iPad at home. Which the Surface was supposed to be replacing.


I'm still waiting for the shop to get a 3rd i5 in (it's taking this long because supply is tight they tell me but there was supposed to be some more in last week- I will call them Monday). I expect its pen not to work either, frankly. I'll be happily amazed if it does. For those who may not have read my other posts on this it isn't a faulty pen. I've tried 4 pens, a new battery and 2 i5 tablets.


This is the most trouble I have ever had with any purchase I've ever made bar none and a huge waste of time. I researched this purchase carefully so I was aware of some issues I could put up with but not this one!


The thing that really bothers me is that it's exactly what I want when it works. I'm hugely disappointed above all.


I'm not using a dock so have had none of those problems. I also have had no BSODs. I have had two black screens on boot requiring a hard restart after shutdown just recently (one of those it looks like it didn't shut down correctly as it was both hot and the camera light was on when I opened the cover when I got home though the screen was black). And an issue where after the Surface slept it had limited connectivity to internet over wifi at a worksite where the device had an ip address reserved by MAC address and was then forwarded through the server firewall. Since it never did that when set on hibernate I guess something shuts down to conserve power and doesn't wake again. I haven't experimented to check. I just removed the reservation and the firewall setting and used the regular proxy settings. I have no issues on regular home wifi since the wifi firmware fix (used to be a speed issue on some routers including mine). The battery life is not good either. My estimate is 5 Working hours, maybe 6. It's a bit hard to tell as I just make it a habit to plug it in when possible so I never let it run down completely. That's on default power settings but with wifi unticked so it turns off to conserve power when asleep.


I could put up with those occasional, irregular glitches and firmware has fixed previous wifi and most sleep problems but whatever (software or hardware) keeps making the pen stop writing and Device Manager flicker when it happens is enough to ruin the device for me because one of the main points of purchase was using the pen in lieu of  a mouse or keyboard when in use as a tablet.


 


 


 



Given the issues I imagine you'd have a reasonable case to ask for a refund under the CGA

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  Reply # 1529331 10-Apr-2016 09:40
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Wow, I was thinking about buying one but this thread is putting me off



Most of the pro 3's that are on trademe have been replaced by microsoft


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  Reply # 1529335 10-Apr-2016 09:46
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MackinNZ: The SP4 dock has two mini-DisplayPort sockets, but if you plug in two DVI monitors (which require third-party active mini-DisplyPort to DVI adapters) and you're supporting a customer with this configuration, you can expect frequent support calls and a very frustrated customer.

Slightly off topic but Mini-DP to DVI does not require an active adapter as far as I am aware. Also I vastly prefer mini-dp to dvi cable much cleaner solution vs clunky adaptor.

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  Reply # 1529337 10-Apr-2016 09:50
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nathan:

 

networkn:

 

richms:

 

nathan:

 

We sell an Enterprise warranty in NZ that allows the customer to get a new device so they can destroy the old one to physically destroy their data.

 

Its that trade off of having the thinnest Intel Core i device on the market.  Also visible screws are ugly.

 

 

Well that's not wasteful at all...

 

 

 

 

In the immortal words of Meatloaf... You took the words right out of my Mouth!

 

 

 

 

these are the same businesses/govt departments that will drill holes thru their iPads when they break or get damaged.

 

 

Well to be fair I don't think thats a good enough reason to offer such a service. How about you create a planet saving warranty plan called secure disposal where you pick the device up and recycle as much of it as possible whilst providing the assurity of their data being safe.

 

May not be entirely possible as I understand these places tend to be quite stuck in their way, but MS is a big company who understands data security, having the conversation is a way to start.


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  Reply # 1529344 10-Apr-2016 10:03
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gzt:
MackinNZ: The SP4 dock has two mini-DisplayPort sockets, but if you plug in two DVI monitors (which require third-party active mini-DisplyPort to DVI adapters) and you're supporting a customer with this configuration, you can expect frequent support calls and a very frustrated customer.

Slightly off topic but Mini-DP to DVI does not require an active adapter as far as I am aware. Also I vastly prefer mini-dp to dvi cable much cleaner solution vs clunky adaptor.

 

 

 

I'm afraid it does.  I've tried using passive cables and they do not work.


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  Reply # 1529349 10-Apr-2016 10:23
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MackinNZ:

gzt:
MackinNZ: The SP4 dock has two mini-DisplayPort sockets, but if you plug in two DVI monitors (which require third-party active mini-DisplyPort to DVI adapters) and you're supporting a customer with this configuration, you can expect frequent support calls and a very frustrated customer.

Slightly off topic but Mini-DP to DVI does not require an active adapter as far as I am aware. Also I vastly prefer mini-dp to dvi cable much cleaner solution vs clunky adaptor.


 


I'm afraid it does.  I've tried using passive cables and they do not work.


Ok, it is working for me with Surface Pro 2 dock and Dell 2407. This is the exact cable from my order history according to the supplier SKU:

http://www.darkstar.co.nz/av-cables/rca-cables/displayport-mini-displayport/mini-displayport-to-dvi-cable-1-8m.html

I seem to remember doing some research before buying this one but I do not recall the details now.

****Edit****
Ignore that. Apparently the problem is the sp4 dock mini DP port spec is different. Info here says MS were considering a firmware update to resolve it. Passive may work ok on the sp4 machine dp port but sp4 dock dp port will not play with all monitors in passive dp to DVI.

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  Reply # 1529379 10-Apr-2016 10:55
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I have had nothing but problems with "passive" adapters - decide that they only want to output 1024x768, or suddenly send things in RGB but the screen thinks its something else so its all weird colours etc.

 

Active ones cost stuff all more and have an actual dual link output on some so you get the better refresh and resolutions compared to the single link dvi you have on a passive.





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  Reply # 1529388 10-Apr-2016 11:22
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****Edit****
Ignore that. Apparently the problem is the sp4 dock mini DP port spec is different. Info here says MS were considering a firmware update to resolve it. Passive may work ok on the sp4 machine dp port but sp4 dock dp port will not play with all monitors in passive dp to DVI.

 

 

 

Exactly correct.  A passive adapter will work when plugged into the mini-DP socket on the tablet itself, but not when plugged into the SP4 dock.




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  Reply # 1529448 10-Apr-2016 12:57
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JayADee:

 

I have had two black screens on boot requiring a hard restart after shutdown just recently (one of those it looks like it didn't shut down correctly as it was both hot and the camera light was on when I opened the cover when I got home though the screen was black).  

 

 

Experienced this a couple of times. Perform a shut down and put in bag. On removing several hours later, machine is very hot (so still powered on) but black screen  - can't wake it from sleep and it won't respond to power on. Hard reset required to get back on track.

 

With the Surface Pro 4 - long press of the power button while pressing volume up is the friend you get to know, again, and again, and again ....


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