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TLD



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Topic # 223812 18-Oct-2017 13:21
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I revisited Geekzone yesterday to ask this question, but got involved in some other interesting threads, so to get myself back on focus...

 

After spending more time than ever before looking into a new build, and changing direction several times, I'm 'almost' ready to go with an i9-7900X build in a Cosmos II case.  The only thing still worrying me is just how difficult is it to keep the CPU temperature under control with this chip? 

 

The prospective full build spec is:

 

i9-7900X

 

ASRock Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9 — it has an excellent VRM, and a full 10 SATA ports, and lots of USB3 headers (I use a lot of USB3 external drives for back up.

 

64Gb G-Skill Trident Z 3600 CL17 (4 x 16Gb).

 

Cooler Master Cosmos II — huge and heavy, but lots of room inside, lots of drive bays, and good air flow.

 

GTX970 — bumped from my existing 3930K box.  This is to keep the cost down.  I'll see if anything comes of Volta next year, and maybe look at a GTX1080 if it doesn't.

 

Cooler Master 1000W Gold Silent Pro — I'll never use more than one GPU, but I have a lot of drives.  The 1200W is another $90, and I am torn even if I honestly don't think I'd ever need 1200W

 

Corsair H115i — 280mm 2 x 140 fans.  The block has a USB connection that ties with an app that gives feedback and control.  I am not totally sure this will fit in the top of the Cosmos II despite its size, and have a couple of forum posts awaiting feed back on this.

 

Samsung 960PRO 500Gb — for the boot drive.  I _really_ like to keep as much as possible off the boot drive, and rarely go above 180Gb, but Samsung only do a 250Gb version with the EVO.  This proved to helpful when Windows died and needed a full reinstall a few weeks ago.  All data files, including the Outlook pst file, where there on my second 840PRO 250Gb drive.  The Motherboard has three M.2 sockets, so I'll fit a second 960PRO 500Gb drive, and leave the other M.2 socket until I have worked out how best to use it.

 

So my main question is, has anyone built with 7900X, and if so how are they cooling it, and what temperatures are they managing to keep it down to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

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  Reply # 1885694 18-Oct-2017 13:31
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Do you really need the extra 2 cores over the much cheaper 7820X?


TLD



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  Reply # 1885724 18-Oct-2017 14:12
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backfiah:

 

Do you really need the extra 2 cores over the much cheaper 7820X?

 

 

While Photoshop represents a lot of my work, I also use the rig for video with Premiere Pro, and After Effects, and even Handbrake, and those apps will use all the cores you can throw at them.  Plus I tend to have multiple apps running each using their own core.

 

We use Puget Systems for the low down on this sort of system.  Lots of real world testing with the same apps and hardware.  And while the site tells you what works best in which situation, it does not go ingo the nuts & bolts with boring stuff like keeping the CPU temperature under control.

 

https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php

 

[EDIT]  I should probably expand on that as I was more or less decided on the cheaper Threadripper 1520X, but lots of cores actually slows Photoshop, so I turned full circle and went back to i9X, and the 7900X offered the best compromise.  I also want this system to last me another five years, the same as my 3930K system has done, and who knows what will happen in that time.  With 10 and above core CPUs becoming more commonplace and affordable, will Adobe be coding Photoshop to make better use of more cores?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1885732 18-Oct-2017 14:30
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I'd probably go with a 280mm AIO water cooler, Something like a NZXT Kraken X62 or Corsair Hydro H115i should keep it 'cool' at full load.





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dt

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  Reply # 1885754 18-Oct-2017 15:05
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Although I have no idea how it holds up in the world of photoshop / premier have you considered a threadripper? the 1950x seems looks like much better value if your requirements are more cores/threads 


TLD



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  Reply # 1885822 18-Oct-2017 17:06
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dt:

 

Although I have no idea how it holds up in the world of photoshop / premier have you considered a threadripper? the 1950x seems looks like much better value if your requirements are more cores/threads 

 

 

Yes I was committed to the 1920X for a while.  I liked the X399 motherboards better for one thing.  But the Puget Systems testing was clearly showing 7900X to be better with Photoshop, and that's where most of my work lies.  I was pleased to discover the X299 ASRock Fatal1ty X299 Pro Gaming i9.  It has more of the features I needed, was cheaper than other high end boards, and is well made with the 13 phase VRM.  That was what swung it for me.

 

 





Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

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  Reply # 1885919 18-Oct-2017 19:32
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Being that both cpu's are very closely matched on price here in NZ, its a tough call. However i would hope that high core count becomes optimised.

 

The other thing which will be causing the most doubt for purchase is the part where the Threadripper 1950X really takes it to the i9 7000x in almost every other app you will be using and all for about the same cost. 

 

There has been a lot of stink in the enthusiast market lately about intel cheaping out on its TIM(Thermal Interface Material) between the actual DIE and heat spreaders, meaning that end users have to invest more in cooling. 

 

I dont have any personal experience with either platform, however no matter which way you go it looks like water cooling is the smart way to go. 

 

Ive generally found this guy to be reasonable with his reviews.

 

https://youtu.be/G9JR_v-4BaQ

 

I also had a look at the review on the puget systems website and if you look at the raw numbers its pretty neck and neck between the i9 7900x and 1950x

 

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2017-1-1-CPU-Performance-Core-i9-7940X-7960X-7980XE-1039/

 

Glad its not me trying to make the call on which one to go for money-mouth


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  Reply # 1885932 18-Oct-2017 19:56
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I reckon going for slightly lower spec parts your real world interactive performance will be identical, your batch performance (video etc) will not be far off, and you can save a bunch. Buy the cheapest motherboard from a good brand with the ports you need, or factor in the cost of an add-on card. I got a USB3 card for like $30 from Amazon. Unfortunately can't use video card and that at same time because my cooler is so huge.

 

64GB RAM and 1000W PSU are likely overkill for what you're trying to do.





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  Reply # 1885940 18-Oct-2017 20:08
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How much does a 1950X Ryzen Threadripper combo cost? It is faster than the 7900K. Wonder if it's bang for buck?


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  Reply # 1885996 18-Oct-2017 23:22
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Have a look at what other people are using for coolers for their i9-7900x builds at PC Parts Picker.

 

https://nz.pcpartpicker.com/builds/#c=424

 

 


TLD



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  Reply # 1885999 18-Oct-2017 23:32
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My previous pick was the 1920X, because the 1950X had too big a negative impact on Photoshop, and it was NZ$1575 on PriceSpy.  So my spec was

 

1920X @ $1267

 

MSI X399 Pro Carbon @ NZ$674

 

Total NZ$1941

 

I am now looking at

 

7900X @ NZ$1483

 

ASRock Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9 @ NZ$551

 

Total NZ$2034 ($93 more Note: I am not taking postage into account)

 

Photoshop represents >90% of my workload.  The rest is split between SketchUp, Premiere Pro, After Effects, Illustrator plus small workloads with apps like Handbrake.  If my usage of Photoshop and Premiere Pro was reversed, I'd go with the 1950X $1575 which would have bought the MB and CPU to $2250.  I'd have saved a bit on the cooler though.  Remember the reason I started this thread is because I am concerned about keeping the 7900X temperature under control.  A Corsair H115i is going to cost $234 and will still not keep the 7900X from throttling at full load if even slightly OC'd.  Possibly not even running stock.  That just makes a nonsense of it all as if you pay for performance and can't use it, then what's the point?

 

I'm telling myself that if it comes to it I can delid and use a liquid metal TIM.  I've not actually read of anyone messing up doing that, but who would put their hand up to it?  I'm even in danger of delaying the build in case Intel suddenly change tack and fix the TIM problem, but I can't see that happening, and I have been researching this build since around about the time that the i9X range was announced, and I want to get on with it.

 

The problem with the Puget Systems benchmarks is that they cover such a range of functions, and it depends on which features you actually use. I am more illustrator than photographer, and most of what I do benefits from the 7900X's higher clock speed, and faster memory speeds.  But my build list is definitely not set in stone.  I just want to commit and pull the trigger on itfrown

 

 

 

 

 

 





Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

TLD



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  Reply # 1886007 18-Oct-2017 23:55
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ratsun81:

 

 

 

Ive generally found this guy to be reasonable with his reviews.

 

https://youtu.be/G9JR_v-4BaQ

 

 

 

 

Damn! Some of his benchmarks were new to me.  My recent thinking has been to optimize for Photoshop, and compromise for the other apps, but the Photoshop compromise is marginal, whereas with the other apps, it's significant to say the least.  Plus you don't have quite the same problems with cooling.  Damn! again.  This is becoming a nightmare. :-(  I'll price it up again with 1950X, same memory, the MSI X399 MB and I might as well stick with the same cooler.

 

 





Trevor Dennis
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  Reply # 1886017 19-Oct-2017 06:29
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In general I find it best to buy a midrange to upper midrange CPU in the latest or next latest generation, with a motherboard that's a lower end that has the ports you need from a good brand. You go much beyond that and you're paying a lot more for really minimal gains.





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  Reply # 1886023 19-Oct-2017 06:58
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TLD:

 

ratsun81:

 

 

 

Ive generally found this guy to be reasonable with his reviews.

 

https://youtu.be/G9JR_v-4BaQ

 

 

 

 

Damn! Some of his benchmarks were new to me.  My recent thinking has been to optimize for Photoshop, and compromise for the other apps, but the Photoshop compromise is marginal, whereas with the other apps, it's significant to say the least.  Plus you don't have quite the same problems with cooling.  Damn! again.  This is becoming a nightmare. :-(  I'll price it up again with 1950X, same memory, the MSI X399 MB and I might as well stick with the same cooler.

 

 

 

 

:) I have to say though I watched the video to exercise my 4k60 capable ultrabook - but I didn't see any photoshop comparisons. the Intel just about held its own when overclocked to 4.5GHz


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  Reply # 1886163 19-Oct-2017 11:16
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Batman:

 

 

 

:) I have to say though I watched the video to exercise my 4k60 capable ultrabook - but I didn't see any Photoshop comparisons. the Intel just about held its own when overclocked to 4.5GHz

 

 

No Photoshop benchmarks in the video, but Puget Systems covered that pretty comprehensively.  I had been thinking that I had a 'small' advantage with the 7900X with Photoshop, and that I would put up with it being not so great with the video and CAD apps.  What the Hardware Unboxed guy showed was that the Threadripper advantage with the non-Photoshop apps was _much_ greater than I'd realised. Heck, even MS Office apps like Excel were way faster, also a math intensive app like Excel was always going to fly with Threadripper 'if' it uses lots of cores. 

 

So right now I think I have been convinced to go back to Threadripper, and if I am doing that, it will probably be with the 1950X.  The much cooling will be a worry removed, and I do like that MSI X399 Pro Gaming MB.  I use eight USB externals for back up and non essential files, and the MSI board has a ton of USB3 sockets on the back panel, and enough spare MB headers to bring at least two more to a spare PCIe outlet.

 

 





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  Reply # 1886169 19-Oct-2017 11:24
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Do you use all your external disks at one time? I have three external backup disks that are stored offsite, I only plug one in at a time. All disks that are onsite are internal SATA, as they're faster and more reliable than external disks.





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