Have I been scammed?

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ADKM

858 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2163059 18-Jan-2019 12:14

I wasn’t going to add to this but one last attempt to get my point across.

I blame MS whether they’re within their ELA or not. If - and please understand me here - the key is not legitimate MS should not let it activate Office.

This would give the buyer the opportunity to get a refund from the seller as the item is "no good". Eventually trade would dry up and problem solved. By permitting the key to work at all MS are saying this is ok, then later they sabotage your program. Some of you think that’s okay. I don’t.

And Clint, out of curiously I'm buying one of those yellow stickers Office disks just to see.

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clinty

1177 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2163079 18-Jan-2019 12:28

ADKM:

I blame MS whether they’re within their ELA or not. If - and please understand me here - the key is not legitimate MS should not let it activate Office.

And Clint, out of curiously I'm buying one of those yellow stickers Office disks just to see.

I think we all understand your point, but unfortunately that is not how it works.

The key is legitimate, hence will activate, but your specific use of it may not be.

As the activation takes place electronically MS have no way of knowing if your are a legitimate user for that particular key or not. If you had to ring to activate they could ask you and then inform you that you cannot use that particular key, but electronic activation doesn't allow that.

Not to open another can of worms, but if you were dealing with an NZ company i feel you would have the CGA right for a refund as the product (the key) is not suitable for your purpose

If you do get a yellow sticker version ( whats known as a Fully Packaged Product), make sure it has the correct disc with it ( there were several versions ). Also if the previous user has reloaded it a lot of times the activation may fail as well. I believe Microsoft has disabled the phone activation for this product as it is now EoL

Clint

Edit: Edited for clarity

clinty

1177 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2163083 18-Jan-2019 12:33

It would be good if there was a better way of recognising a retail key from a Volume License Key straight away but the would break alot of back end systems

With the new Subscription model Micrsoft uses, this issue goes away, as you know what license you are subscribing to, and shouldn't have any issues :)

Clint

nathan

5695 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2163190 18-Jan-2019 13:50

Batman:

In 2018, the customer is still always right.

sometimes really the customer isn't right.

I've seen lots of scenarios like that, when they get audited, they just simply blame the system integrator, since they touched they keyboard, for installing the unlicensed keys, and feign ignorance.

I'd be getting some sort of documentation or something that I could refer back to that I can show they asked me to do that.

They would hate it if people were stealing the product/service etc that your customers business is built around, but because its an offshore mega-corporation people feel its OK

nathan

5695 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2163197 18-Jan-2019 13:54

clinty:

ADKM:

I blame MS whether they’re within their ELA or not. If - and please understand me here - the key is not legitimate MS should not let it activate Office.

And Clint, out of curiously I'm buying one of those yellow stickers Office disks just to see.

I think we all understand your point, but unfortunately that is not how it works.

The key is legitimate, hence will activate, but your specific use of it may not be.

As the activation takes place electronically MS have no way of knowing if your are a legitimate user for that particular key or not. If you had to ring to activate they could ask you and then inform you that you cannot use that particular key, but electronic activation doesn't allow that.

Not to open another can of worms, but if you were dealing with an NZ company i feel you would have the CGA right for a refund as the product (the key) is not suitable for your purpose

If you do get a yellow sticker version ( whats known as a Fully Packaged Product), make sure it has the correct disc with it ( there were several versions ). Also if the previous user has reloaded it a lot of times the activation may fail as well. I believe Microsoft has disabled the phone activation for this product as it is now EoL

Clint

Edit: Edited for clarity

I believe this would actually fall more under the Sale of Goods Act, since its about fit-for-purpose not a warranty. That act also covers businesses.

The complicating factor here is its not a NZ business, it appears to be a Canadian registered business that trades in AU$ so NZ law means diddly squat.

1101

3121 posts

Uber Geek

#2163220 18-Jan-2019 14:29

ADKM:

I wasn’t going to add to this but one last attempt to get my point across.

I blame MS whether they’re within their ELA or not. If - and please understand me here - the key is not legitimate MS should not let it activate Office.

MS even allow activation when it obviously shouldnt be allowed , eg win or Office Lic used on multiple PC's , (they know)

MS do partially only have themselves to blame , for making licensing so damn confusing for the av Joe to comprehend, and changing it so often
I suspect they really dont care .

take 365 Business for example
"One license covers fully-installed Office apps on 5 phones, 5 tablets, and 5 PCs or Macs per user"

many do see that as being allowed to install on 5 separate PC's , used by 5 separate staff members : again, another cause of arguments with clients .
Even MS helpdesk gave conflicting info depending on when rang & who you talked to re the 5 installs .

Why leave it all so God damn ambiguous !!!!
If Boxed retail is 1 PC only , put that in bold letters on the front . Dont list all the different Office versions on the back of packaging with different number of allowed installs for different versions (that caused
arguments with some clients )
So many assume Office Full Retail = 1 PC + 1 laptop , now if thats not the case MS need to make that well known at time of purchase.
The people selling Office in toaster shops havnt a clue, put it in bold letters on the front of the package .

Things are getting better with this , but still a long way to go.

ADKM

858 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2163221 18-Jan-2019 14:31

>The key is legitimate, hence will activate, but your specific use of it may not be.
That's a good explanation for a key being both good and bad, although how is one to know in advance...

I only found about my 2nd one was suspect by getting through to the MS rep... and when I quizzed the seller he said

it doesnt really matter as long as its installed and activated it will last and work permanently.. we have been installing for years sometimes MS say such things in order to get you to pay full price but we can guarantee you will not have any issue with this key.. also MS do not sell 2010 version officially anymore so this is the only way to acquire it.

(But they then did give me a retail key)

> As the activation takes place electronically MS have no way of knowing if your are a legitimate user for that particular key or not.
In my case both good and failed activations were electronic... what happened in between? Same key, same computer, same user.

Hopefully the new subscription model will improve the situation going forward, but how many people around the world have been duped
and Microsoft, why don't you do something about it? Don't people who buy your product (even from dodgy sellers) deserve better?

When this "Full Version" disk arrives, I don't need to use it, but will contact MS and see what they say about the key. If its a dud
or one I can't use a money back offer exists.

nathan

5695 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2163222 18-Jan-2019 14:32

ADKM:

I wasn’t going to add to this but one last attempt to get my point across.

I blame MS whether they’re within their ELA or not. If - and please understand me here - the key is not legitimate MS should not let it activate Office.

This would give the buyer the opportunity to get a refund from the seller as the item is "no good". Eventually trade would dry up and problem solved. By permitting the key to work at all MS are saying this is ok, then later they sabotage your program. Some of you think that’s okay. I don’t.

And Clint, out of curiously I'm buying one of those yellow stickers Office disks just to see.

how does a car manufacturer stop you filling up a stolen car at a petrol station?

1101

3121 posts

Uber Geek

#2163226 18-Jan-2019 14:34

clinty:

I believe Microsoft has disabled the phone activation for this product as it is now EoL

no, they just tried to make it harder
ph activation still available (despite the activation popup box saying otherwise), you just need to somehow know the ph number to ring :-)

A bit of a dirty trick .

ADKM

858 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2163243 18-Jan-2019 14:46

>how does a car manufacturer stop you filling up a stolen car at a petrol station?

But but but... nothing's stolen and MS are controlling the pump. And even if you wanted to buy the car, they won't sell it.

nathan

5695 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2163264 18-Jan-2019 15:08

ADKM:

>how does a car manufacturer stop you filling up a stolen car at a petrol station?

But but but... nothing's stolen and MS are controlling the pump. And even if you wanted to buy the car, they won't sell it.

the secondhand flea-market dealer knowingly sold you a car that's not fit-for-purpose and isn't registered to be driven on the road

the car manufacturer discontinued the model year of car you wanted to buy, because there's a newer model that's safer, faster, ,better mileage blah blah

Batman

Mad Scientist
29685 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2163285 18-Jan-2019 15:47

nathan:
ADKM:

>how does a car manufacturer stop you filling up a stolen car at a petrol station?

But but but... nothing's stolen and MS are controlling the pump. And even if you wanted to buy the car, they won't sell it.

the secondhand flea-market dealer knowingly sold you a car that's not fit-for-purpose and isn't registered to be driven on the road

the car manufacturer discontinued the model year of car you wanted to buy, because there's a newer model that's safer, faster, ,better mileage blah blah

The car is fit for purpose, have a 5 star safety rating, brand new with plastic covering throughout, but imported from Japan, and not registered.

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