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Topic # 80272 29-Mar-2011 23:09
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I know it's a long shot, but does anyone know of any source for unused Trinitron/Diamondtron CRTs anywhere (like really old clearance stock or something???).

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  Reply # 453325 29-Mar-2011 23:14
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Good luck, even the previous ample supply of used ones that just needed a quick tweek with WINDAS have dried up. Both mine are starting to do green flashes on poweron and I am not able to afford any screens with a decent resolution to replace them :(




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  Reply # 453338 30-Mar-2011 00:03
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I'm down to one very fuzzy 2070SB, that's developed a green tinge and squealing sound. LCD is barely less of a joke than it was 7 years ago. When will the market realise that it's a fundamentally flawed technology that needs to be replaced not just plastered with band aids like LED backlighting, localised dimming etc?

Never has there been such a vast backwards step in technology.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 453342 30-Mar-2011 01:14
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The tint can be solved by using the windas software and a USB to TTL serial cable and tweeking the aging values, but you only get to do it a couple of times before they are gone. With the right test signals its apparantly possible to get them back to good as new several times over but I dont have them, and dont know anyone that does.

I just dont see how 1080p is a _feature_ on screens. That is a massive reduction in vertical resolution. When using a F*()&ing widescreen monitor I have to do stupid things like put the taskbar vertical on the side and not have all the normal toolbars just to get a reasonable work area in the middle.




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  Reply # 453347 30-Mar-2011 07:31
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Turn you HD monitor 90 degrees, even better have 2 next to each other at 90 degrees.

PB Tech used to sell CRTs for more than LCDs. I see it is now all in x-products.

Just like plasma TVs, we'll see lots of HD resolution monitors until the manufacturers are ready to release the next generation. It is amazing the high price tag of plasma TVs despite the last factory to make plasma panels closed down long ago. I have seen a few LCDs at 4x HD resolution, guess that's the next size up.




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  Reply # 453511 30-Mar-2011 15:08
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LCDs crap viewing angle is even worse when you put them on their side. The reason that 1080 is popular is that the lower height makes it less of a problem in that axis.




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  Reply # 453524 30-Mar-2011 15:48
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Oubadah: I'm down to one very fuzzy 2070SB, that's developed a green tinge and squealing sound. LCD is barely less of a joke than it was 7 years ago. When will the market realise that it's a fundamentally flawed technology that needs to be replaced not just plastered with band aids like LED backlighting, localised dimming etc?


Never has there been such a vast backwards step in technology.


 

Although it does depend what LCD technology you a using, as you pay for what you get. Some of the really expensive LCD panels are excellent, and the picture is far sharper than I ever saw on the sony trinitron monitor. I agree that your cheap LCD computer monitors, the image quality, colour, and viewing angle isn't usually that great. I would have though plasma monitors could be an idea. 

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  Reply # 453539 30-Mar-2011 17:12
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Niel: 

Just like plasma TVs, we'll see lots of HD resolution monitors until the manufacturers are ready to release the next generation. It is amazing the high price tag of plasma TVs despite the last factory to make plasma panels closed down long ago. I have seen a few LCDs at 4x HD resolution, guess that's the next size up.


Huh? Panasonic shipped 19.1 plasma TV panels last year - LG and Samsung still manufacture and sell them.  Admittedly they dont make up as much of the market as they did - but its still alive.
Ironic considering its actually newer technology than LCD. 




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  Reply # 453540 30-Mar-2011 17:17
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Look at the newer IPS panels, they're not "crap" anymore..
(Expensive, but of course they're expensive)

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  Reply # 453542 30-Mar-2011 17:20
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There are 2 types of LED displays. The one uses an LED backlight which gives more brightness control and stays white over the life of the monitor but still uses an LCD panel, the other is actually an LED panel with no LCD and is far superior (and expensive).

Viewing angle is a function of LCD panel design, not LCD technology. You can not say all LCDs are rubbish. It all depends how much is spent on the LCD panel. That is why e.g. Samsung has a consumer series and a professional series. And why an LCD TV and a LCD monitor is different - different requirements.

Plasma was a great idea, but there are issues and no future to develop it. Actually last year or the year before the last factory to manufacture plasma panels closed down. Everything in stores is obsolete.

Even with LED-only displays there are difference, because the really good LED technology uses blue-only LEDs illuminating phosphor just like a CRT... Don't know if that is available yet, but it is starting to become mainstream in LED lighting. as it is much easier to do colour matching and handle aging.




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  Reply # 453591 30-Mar-2011 19:49
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mattwnz: 
Although it does depend what LCD technology you a using, as you pay for what you get. Some of the really expensive LCD panels are excellent, and the picture is far sharper than I ever saw on the sony trinitron monitor. I agree that your cheap LCD computer monitors, the image quality, colour, and viewing angle isn't usually that great. I would have though plasma monitors could be an idea. 


The problem is that there are several panel types, and each has different strengths. IPS has viewing angles, colour etc., while TN has response and is available in high refresh rate models.

CRT has it all rolled into one, plus smooth, fluid motion that LCD will never achieve.

kyhwana2: Look at the newer IPS panels, they're not "crap" anymore.. (Expensive, but of course they're expensive) 


I bought an HP LP2475w last year. A 'quality' IPS display, cost over a grand. The 2002/03 Trinitron and Diamond monitors I had at the time put it to shame in every aspect apart from image 'sharpness'. These were high mileage CRTs, however, so comparing that aspect wasn't even fair.



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  Reply # 453604 30-Mar-2011 20:55
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Niel: the other is actually an LED panel with no LCD and is far superior (and expensive).


I don't think that kind of thing is available on the consumer market. And that's what OLED is anyway, and it seems like hell will freeze over before we see an OLED screen larger than a PDA

Niel: Viewing angle is a function of LCD panel design, not LCD technology. You can not say all LCDs are rubbish.


The best consumer LCD still can't match CRT viewing angles. As stated, I had an IPS display (supposedly the best tech for viewing angles), and even that was rubbish. You get white haze from most angles. There was an IPS monitor from NEC (I think it was), that used and ATW polerizer to fix this, but last I heard that model was discontinued, and I don't think there is a comparable unit now.


Every year I'm told "LCD is mature now, you can throw away that CRT", and every few years I'm stupid enough to believe it and purchase another LCD. A couple of months later the LCD is sold, and I'm back to using a CRT. 

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  Reply # 453632 30-Mar-2011 21:57
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Niel: There are 2 types of LED displays. The one uses an LED backlight which gives more brightness control and stays white over the life of the monitor but still uses an LCD panel, the other is actually an LED panel with no LCD and is far superior (and expensive).

LCD with fluorescent display (older style - still in common use)
LCD with LED backlighting (newer style LCD panels with improved contrast)
OLED - Organic Light Emitting Diodes - dont think anyone is selling anything bigger than a phone display (in NZ) at the moment - though Samsung is 'testing' a 32" panel - expensive



Viewing angle is a function of LCD panel design, not LCD technology. You can not say all LCDs are rubbish. It all depends how much is spent on the LCD panel. That is why e.g. Samsung has a consumer series and a professional series. And why an LCD TV and a LCD monitor is different - different requirements.

Plasma was a great idea, but there are issues and no future to develop it. Actually last year or the year before the last factory to manufacture plasma panels closed down. Everything in stores is obsolete.


Where are you getting this 'information'? Samsung/LG/Panasonic still manufacture plasma panels!
Panasonic just launched a 152" plasma display panel. Just google Panasonic plasma panel and click the news filter - lots of announcements. Stop making stuff up...



Even with LED-only displays there are difference, because the really good LED technology uses blue-only LEDs illuminating phosphor just like a CRT... Don't know if that is available yet, but it is starting to become mainstream in LED lighting. as it is much easier to do colour matching and handle aging.




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  Reply # 453643 30-Mar-2011 22:24
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A 1/4" (6mm) thick prototype LED displays was made in 1977; see section on flat panels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_display

Sony made the first OLED display in 2008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_XEL-1

This from a Wikipedia page on LCDs explains why you would not agree with the viewing angle specified by manufacturers:
"The human eye can only image a contrast ratio of a maximum of about 200:1. Black print on a white paper is about 15-20:1. That is why viewing angles are specified to the point where the fall below 10:1. A 10:1 image is not great, but is discernable."
With LCDs the viewing angle specification comes from how monochrome LCDs (like wrist watches and VCR displays) are specified. It is a measurement standard in the industry not specific to LCD monitors but to all LCDs. CRTs are a bit different, to start with you have a curved surface so technically the viewing angle is >180 degree as you can see the screen over that wide angle (okay flat CRTs are just under 180 degrees).

Quantum dot LED displays are similar (but better) than OLED, it is inorganic. Only disadvantage is the blue is still hard to generate, but it is a technology on the horizon and not far away.

Bottom line is you will struggle to find a new CRT, so better do research into what is available for your budget and attempt to try it in a shop before buying.




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  Reply # 453688 31-Mar-2011 07:17
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My bad, it is half of the reputable TV brands that stopped manufacturing plasma TVs. The other half of reputable brands get their plasma panels from only 5 component manufacturers.

My mistake came in because a friend told me a shop tried to sell him a new Pioneer plasma but he knew Pioneer already closed all their TV manufacturing plants in 2009 (not just plasma). I thought he said all plasma plants closed down, but it was all Pioneer plants.




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  Reply # 453695 31-Mar-2011 08:07
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Niel: 

Sony made the first OLED display in 2008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_XEL-1


Woah, you can actually buy that thing? (not in NZ of course) 

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