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  # 976500 29-Jan-2014 10:08
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There's a reason why phones go through network testing before they are sold here

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  # 976529 29-Jan-2014 10:38
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crackrdbycracku: Where Windows Phone is making the most sales is the low end. High end Android is great, low end not so much.

The Lumia 520 is making a name for itself as the best 'it just works' option at the low end.


Man, does this point ever get a lot of play in this thread, despite that the presence of the Moto G largely invalidates it.

Too bad the New Zealand pricing is not more commensurate with the 520 pricing here, as it is overseas.




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  # 976530 29-Jan-2014 10:40
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NZtechfreak:
crackrdbycracku: Where Windows Phone is making the most sales is the low end. High end Android is great, low end not so much.

The Lumia 520 is making a name for itself as the best 'it just works' option at the low end.


Man, does this point ever get a lot of play in this thread, despite that the presence of the Moto G largely invalidates it.


It does, almost tempted to pick one up for a while to see what the fuss is about!

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  # 976531 29-Jan-2014 10:40
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nathan: There's a reason why phones go through network testing before they are sold here


What is that reason?

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  # 976532 29-Jan-2014 10:44
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To be sure the device won't cause problems on the network or to other devices, cell handoff, dropped calls etc etc

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  # 976533 29-Jan-2014 10:45
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NZtechfreak:
crackrdbycracku: Where Windows Phone is making the most sales is the low end. High end Android is great, low end not so much.

The Lumia 520 is making a name for itself as the best 'it just works' option at the low end.


Man, does this point ever get a lot of play in this thread, despite that the presence of the Moto G largely invalidates it.

Too bad the New Zealand pricing is not more commensurate with the 520 pricing here, as it is overseas.


Import them yourself, resell, profit?

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  # 976536 29-Jan-2014 10:55
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nathan: Import them yourself, resell, profit?


May be possible, more effort than I'm prepared to put in though to reap what will be a relatively slim margin per unit though.




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  # 976549 29-Jan-2014 11:13
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nathan: To be sure the device won't cause problems on the network or to other devices, cell handoff, dropped calls etc etc


Is this to reduce the service calls and other warranty items? I'm curious as a few of my handsets are "operator tested" and have given me grief, including one which is with the operator currently. I suspect they do more than test them, it appears (in context to this thread) that they add hacks on top (hence different build numbers in a Nokia context)?

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  # 976552 29-Jan-2014 11:19
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lyonrouge:
nathan: To be sure the device won't cause problems on the network or to other devices, cell handoff, dropped calls etc etc


Is this to reduce the service calls and other warranty items? I'm curious as a few of my handsets are "operator tested" and have given me grief, including one which is with the operator currently. I suspect they do more than test them, it appears (in context to this thread) that they add hacks on top (hence different build numbers in a Nokia context)?


Testing for network compatibility is not testing the overall reliability and build quality of a device.




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  # 976560 29-Jan-2014 11:34
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This sub-topic started from why are they involved with update releases, which lead to "Carriers like to control what goes on their network", which lead to "Testing for network compatibility is not testing the overall reliability and build quality of a device", making my deduction being

"they are involved to protect their network and not a consumer value add (i.e. they don't care if the device is reliable)?"

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  # 976865 29-Jan-2014 19:39
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Hammerer: I think you misread Abo's post. He didn't say that Android 'has failed absolutely'. He said that waiting for carriers/manufacturer to provide timely updates 'is proven to fail absolutely'.


yep, you are correct.

freitasm: Waiting for carriers for ALL updates is a fail. There are things that absolutely don't need the operator's input - adding a new provider for People Hub for example. Or adding a new notification system. These are the kind of things that shouldn't have anything to do with the operator. Radio stack, messaging, phone signaling yes, this should be approved but if they were smarter they would have these in different packages.


agreed


nathan: This is a lot easier said than done. Carriers like to control what goes on their network.


apple and google (nexus +) do this perfectly fine, so while carriers may not like it doesn't mean mean it should be ruled out absolutely.
If I had to guess why MS isn't doing it I would assume it's related to windows phone market share - as it is still reasonably small Microsoft don't have the weight to throw around compared to apple/google against carriers so bending over to the carriers at the detriment to the customer is currently the only way to get them to stock the phones and increase sales..

lyonrouge: This sub-topic started from why are they involved with update releases, which lead to "Carriers like to control what goes on their network", which lead to "Testing for network compatibility is not testing the overall reliability and build quality of a device", making my deduction being

"they are involved to protect their network and not a consumer value add (i.e. they don't care if the device is reliable)?"


yes of course carriers want to protect their network and customers come second in that regard however that doesn't mean their can't be trust OR requirements placed on the manufacturers to make their phones work instead of the carriers.





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  # 976867 29-Jan-2014 19:45
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NZtechfreak:
crackrdbycracku: Where Windows Phone is making the most sales is the low end. High end Android is great, low end not so much.

The Lumia 520 is making a name for itself as the best 'it just works' option at the low end.


Man, does this point ever get a lot of play in this thread, despite that the presence of the Moto G largely invalidates it.

Too bad the New Zealand pricing is not more commensurate with the 520 pricing here, as it is overseas.


Soon as I saw that comment, I knew you would be around to say that the Moto G is better 




Try Vultr using this link and get us both some credit:

 

http://www.vultr.com/?ref=7033587-3B


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  # 976955 29-Jan-2014 22:52
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paulmilbank:
NZtechfreak:
crackrdbycracku: Where Windows Phone is making the most sales is the low end. High end Android is great, low end not so much.

The Lumia 520 is making a name for itself as the best 'it just works' option at the low end.


Man, does this point ever get a lot of play in this thread, despite that the presence of the Moto G largely invalidates it.

Too bad the New Zealand pricing is not more commensurate with the 520 pricing here, as it is overseas.


Soon as I saw that comment, I knew you would be around to say that the Moto G is better 


The Moto G being better is simply objective fact.




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  # 976964 29-Jan-2014 23:07
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nathan: To be sure the device won't cause problems on the network or to other devices, cell handoff, dropped calls etc etc


Why are our networks so fussy in  New Zealand?  Are they not up to standards of networks overseas?  There are plenty of non carrier phones overseas and you don't hear of them causing problems.

My last three phones have all been either imported or are non carrier phones. They have all worked flawlessly on the network I use.

I suspect it more to do with their own personalisation.

This quote sums it up to some extent.

lyonrouge: I'm not entirely sure that is true, I'm confident that they like to control the banding and perhaps default shortcuts, but what comes onto their network they are indifferent too, especially when you consider roaming, which is a giant cash cow and they are completely indifferent to the handsets accessing their network as long as it's generating revenue.


As has been said Nokia/Microsoft don't have enough market share to tell the carriers to get stuffed like Apple do, and deliver update directly to the phone user.  That's the way it should be, with the exception of network specific stuff like frequencies, all other upgrades should be direct to the user, after all who's phone is it?




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  # 977015 30-Jan-2014 07:33
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Its complicated. Just because you don't hear of problems doesn't mean they're aren't any with non Telco approved handsets.

likewise, its very simplistic saying that unless its frequency stuff the carriers have no business interfering. These smartphones are obviously mini computers, computers that can do all sorts of strange things to the Telco networks.

you'll notice with the latest WP8 update, GDR3, it was approved for release by the NZ carriers much much faster than previously, so things are improving

MSFT also now provide an opt in mechanism called Developer Preview that allows you to get the updates immediately.

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