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Zepanda66

533 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2610102 24-Nov-2020 23:23
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JaBZ:

Anyone on the Post launch 2020 2nd wave pre-orders from EB Games, have received a date?  While all other retailers are stating by 15Dec.  EB saying they haven't been told.



I'm in a similar situation. But with xbox. Got a series x per order for December at ebgames. Radio silence. Like you ive only heard rumors and what other retailers are saying. Ill be annoyed if other retailers get it in December but eb doesn't also hearing mid December for xbox as well. Hopefully you get your ps5 its a great console.




http://www.speedtest.net/result/7315955530.png


LeatheryHawkeye
134 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2610243 25-Nov-2020 09:51
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toejam316:

 

LeatheryHawkeye:

 

90 degrees is 'awfully high' in relation to what? CPU's get hotter. If it doesn't impact reliability or performance it really is an arbitrary measure to not worry about.

 

 

Awfully high in relation to expected operating temperatures for modern memory and chips. 95 Degrees is skirting near the operating extremes for those chips, and will certainly increase failure rate and decrease average chip life expectancy. There's a reason why in any sane design you have cooling applied to VRMs, Memory and the processor at a minimum. Take a look at the thermal issues Apple laptops are notorious for to understand why this is a bad thing.

 

Edit: also what CPUs get hotter? You shouldn't be letting your CPU run that hot, that's absurd.

 

 

 

 

Do you have any source data for failure rates and temperatures please in relation to these 'modern memory and chips' at all? That would be great.

 

'Skirting' - is that a within limits or outside?

 

I know that CPU's often have a limit where they throttle to control temperature. Similar to a fan coming on in car engine, or the thermostat allowing cooling through. It's by design so I am assuming it's within tolerances - but that is an assumption. So not really sure why it is 'absurd' .

Could you please explain why that might be and why thermal dynamic engineers and scientists might not have picked it up during research and development phase? Is it costs or they want it to fail?

 


Genuinely interested to know so I can decide whether to sell this device before it melts the entertainment system of the person I gifted it to, or fails outright.  That would be embarrassing!

p.s. happy to provide some temperatures from Mac Pro when in the agency office. Raspberry pi's frequently are within the 80 degrees range for weeks/month on end. I will try and see if can see the cloud render farm but not sure have access at that level. If temperature relates to workload of the CPU, why would you not want it maximised? Otherwise you're paying for CPU cycles you don't utilise?


SpartanVXL
843 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2610305 25-Nov-2020 10:58
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So finding solid data might be a bit tricky, generally you go along with manufacturer spec which depending on brand eg. Micron recommends max 90-95 for most of their product, occasionally less for other types.

Problem with using a car analogy, engines have no trouble operating in their temp range and usually perform better when warm. Electronics need to stay cool to keep performance and lower error chance. The closer you get to max temperature the more likely you run into failures, hence why overclockers will go for better cooling when trying to keep high clocks stable. Electron migration is a thing to worry about as these nanometre parts gets smaller.

The ps5 is clocked higher than you’d expect of a console part, they usually follow laptop trend of lower clocks to keep thermals down which the xbox series is doing. Even though memory has lowered timings for when it gets warm, it doesnt really downclock like cpu or gpu does. If the reviewers are getting 90C in a controlled environment I wouldn’t be surprised if memory failures start popping up with people in hotter places.



ShinyChrome
SNNAAAAAAKKKKEEEEE
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  #2610451 25-Nov-2020 13:01
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A bit of clarification from Sony about the PS5 and HDMI 2.1 support via FlatpanelsHD; namely that sometime in the non-past, an update will be incoming to allow VRR support.

 

They also published well-timed article yesterday about the whole HDMI 2.1 support debacle which might be helpful to some as well.

 

As someone on reddit commented, it sounds an awful lot like Sony wants PS5/X9000H owners to beta-test for them.


SpartanVXL
843 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2610452 25-Nov-2020 13:06
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SpartanVXL: So finding solid data might be a bit tricky, generally you go along with manufacturer spec which depending on brand eg. Micron recommends max 90-95 for most of their product, occasionally less for other types.

Problem with using a car analogy, engines have no trouble operating in their temp range and usually perform better when warm. Electronics need to stay cool to keep performance and lower error chance. The closer you get to max temperature the more likely you run into failures, hence why overclockers will go for better cooling when trying to keep high clocks stable. Electron migration is a thing to worry about as these nanometre parts gets smaller.

The ps5 is clocked higher than you’d expect of a console part, they usually follow laptop trend of lower clocks to keep thermals down which the xbox series is doing. Even though memory has lowered timings for when it gets warm, it doesnt really downclock like cpu or gpu does. If the reviewers are getting 90C in a controlled environment I wouldn’t be surprised if memory failures start popping up with people in hotter places.


Edit(ended up quoting myself oops): micron gddr6 is rated up to 105C but the test from Gamers Nexus could have a potential delta 5-10C higher than their 94C result. Essentially a warning to all users in countries with 35C summers to well ventilate their consoles, removing the panels improved overall temperatures by 5C

LeatheryHawkeye
134 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2611977 27-Nov-2020 17:55
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SpartanVXL: So finding solid data might be a bit tricky, generally you go along with manufacturer spec which depending on brand eg. Micron recommends max 90-95 for most of their product, occasionally less for other types.

Problem with using a car analogy, engines have no trouble operating in their temp range and usually perform better when warm. Electronics need to stay cool to keep performance and lower error chance. The closer you get to max temperature the more likely you run into failures, hence why overclockers will go for better cooling when trying to keep high clocks stable. Electron migration is a thing to worry about as these nanometre parts gets smaller.

The ps5 is clocked higher than you’d expect of a console part, they usually follow laptop trend of lower clocks to keep thermals down which the xbox series is doing. Even though memory has lowered timings for when it gets warm, it doesnt really downclock like cpu or gpu does. If the reviewers are getting 90C in a controlled environment I wouldn’t be surprised if memory failures start popping up with people in hotter places.

 

 

 

Fair enough on the engine analogy not working. Although in general engines work well better 'at temperature' as very low temperatures are bad (which is why you can't just red line a performance car when cold and you usually have a lower max rpm before operating temp reached), but low air temperature is MUCH better for performance (for all those chemistry reasons).
Cars are also pretty catastrophic when over temp. It usually gets very loud and then deafeningly quiet 😂

Anyway, until we have some actual data this is all conjecture really! Not much of the internals of the PS5 is just lifted and shifted and plenty is custom (cooling, SSD, etc)


LeatheryHawkeye
134 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2611980 27-Nov-2020 17:59
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Further to my post about Vodafone PS5 pre-orders for December delivery (recap - ordered, charged $99, order number, no email, told order was unsuccessful by Vodafone CS x2);

Just had an email from Voda confirming my order and a tax invoice. So quite hopeful now!

So those that missed out - you may well be in for a pleasant surprise! 🤞




LeatheryHawkeye
134 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2611984 27-Nov-2020 18:04
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SpartanVXL:
SpartanVXL: So finding solid data might be a bit tricky, generally you go along with manufacturer spec which depending on brand eg. Micron recommends max 90-95 for most of their product, occasionally less for other types.

Problem with using a car analogy, engines have no trouble operating in their temp range and usually perform better when warm. Electronics need to stay cool to keep performance and lower error chance. The closer you get to max temperature the more likely you run into failures, hence why overclockers will go for better cooling when trying to keep high clocks stable. Electron migration is a thing to worry about as these nanometre parts gets smaller.

The ps5 is clocked higher than you’d expect of a console part, they usually follow laptop trend of lower clocks to keep thermals down which the xbox series is doing. Even though memory has lowered timings for when it gets warm, it doesnt really downclock like cpu or gpu does. If the reviewers are getting 90C in a controlled environment I wouldn’t be surprised if memory failures start popping up with people in hotter places.


Edit(ended up quoting myself oops): micron gddr6 is rated up to 105C but the test from Gamers Nexus could have a potential delta 5-10C higher than their 94C result. Essentially a warning to all users in countries with 35C summers to well ventilate their consoles, removing the panels improved overall temperatures by 5C

 

 

 

From living in Perth and WA where it got 40 degrees +

You don't usually have the inside of the house this temperature; it becomes really quite uncomfortable.


Boeingflyer
631 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2612010 27-Nov-2020 18:50
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Who has an order with mighty ape?

My shipping estimate was 17th Dec, changed to the 4th Dec and now back to 7th Dec.

Hope it doesn't push out too much.

dclegg
2803 posts

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  #2612014 27-Nov-2020 19:04
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PSA: Borderlands 3 (including PS5 version) on sale for $30.78 in the PS store.

broscht
8 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2612065 27-Nov-2020 21:09
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Boeingflyer: Who has an order with mighty ape?

My shipping estimate was 17th Dec, changed to the 4th Dec and now back to 7th Dec.

Hope it doesn't push out too much.

 

Yeah same here, had a chat with a few staff. Sony is expected to ship out stock earlier on the 4th, which falls on Friday so MightyApe won't be able to ship out all orders on that Friday for weekends, therefore, will be shipping it on the 7th (the Monday after weekends for it to arrive over the weeks).


Boeingflyer
631 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  #2612068 27-Nov-2020 21:14
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broscht:

Boeingflyer: Who has an order with mighty ape?

My shipping estimate was 17th Dec, changed to the 4th Dec and now back to 7th Dec.

Hope it doesn't push out too much.


Yeah same here, had a chat with a few staff. Sony is expected to ship out stock earlier on the 4th, which falls on Friday so MightyApe won't be able to ship out all orders on that Friday for weekends, therefore, will be shipping it on the 7th (the Monday after weekends for it to arrive over the weeks).



sweet I'm just glad to be on the list.

eracode
Smpl Mnmlst
6291 posts

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  #2612106 28-Nov-2020 04:27
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Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.


toejam316
1126 posts

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  #2612107 28-Nov-2020 06:00
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eracode:

CNet story on PS5 thermals:


https://www.cnet.com/news/playstation-5-heat-test-we-use-a-thermal-camera-to-find-out-how-hot-the-ps5-gets/



The guy doing that review doesn't understand how thermal cameras work.
The reflective glossy surface of the PS5 means he's measuring the room temperature, and the matte black surface of the Xbox means he's measuring the plastic of the Xbox. Gamers Nexus use of Thermocouples is the correct methodology.




Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.


afe66
2883 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

  #2612184 28-Nov-2020 11:52
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So when will I be able to wander into a shop and pick a ps5 off shelf do we think?

Bypassedd the ps4 stage so will go from ps3 onto 5. But not desperately needing a ps5

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