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424 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 321842 22-Apr-2010 21:29
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Totally unrelated - was in Bond and Bond recently buying something, overhead someone say that they got paid 3% commission, and about 11.50ish an hour.  

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 324849 29-Apr-2010 17:24
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They are a business. They are human. Mistakes happen, and they shouldn't lose their profits due to a misprint.

Twice in the past year I've seen online sales for things like ASUS EEPCs for 72.87 instead of $728.70 and have failed to get them at that price, which is fair.

I looked it up out of interest (and I admit, a little greed), and sure enough, if you haven't handed over the money and received the item and a receipt, there's no trade yet so you can't fight it.

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 324901 29-Apr-2010 19:09
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They are a business. They are human. Mistakes happen, and they shouldn't lose their profits due to a misprint.

Twice in the past year I've seen online sales for things like ASUS EEPCs for 72.87 instead of $728.70 and have failed to get them at that price, which is fair.

I looked it up out of interest (and I admit, a little greed), and sure enough, if you haven't handed over the money and received the item and a receipt, there's no trade yet so you can't fight it.

EDIT: Reekydesert: " if they say the manager is not there, ask for whoever can make a decision, a store can never have no one in charge at any time, so there must be someone who makes decision."


I think in half of the jobs I've held, there were either no managers present most of the time, or we had a policy that customers don't get put through to the manager unless it's a serious issue (not a complaint or a dispute, but an actual emergency).

The reasoning is that managers are there to manage staff, and customer service people are there to manage customers. It's become commonplace for customers to request to speak to a manager, because they feel the manager will hold more authority and be able to give a desired result. The truth is that managers are better at saying no in a non-inflamatory way. They are generally chosen for being naturally good leaders, and good at managing people. They back their staff up, and are used to dealing with customers who aren't getting things their own way.

In this case, I hate to dissappoint anyone, but a good manager would have said "Sorry, it's a misprint. We honoured it for the first few customers who brought it to our attention, but we can't afford to sell the stock at that price. It's just not possible from a business perspective. I am genuinely sorry for the error, and I'd be happy to give you x amount off the product (whatever the staff would have gotten for their commision usually, or a pre-approved discount of 5% or so), but that's the best I can do unfortunately."



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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 324906 29-Apr-2010 19:19
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Hi I'm late to this. Only just saw it.

Does anyone here who had a problem have enough information/evidence to actually formulate a case?

I have a contact at the Commerce Commission having dealt with them for breaches of the Fair Trading Act by the Noel Leeming/Bond and Bond group so I'm sure they will be very interested to know more.

However you must have actual evidence.

I'm talking things like the original flyer, who you spoke to instore (ie. names), date you went into the store, copies of correspondence.

Feel free to PM me.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 324943 29-Apr-2010 20:13
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You really do need to do your homework and go in with plenty of ammunition. I rang Harvey Norman for a best price for a TV quoting the price that JB were selling it at ($600 cheaper on ticket). The best they could offer me was $200 more expensive than JB but HN were offering 4 years interest free.

When I went into the HN store I looked at the TV and mentioned to the sales person that I'd been given a price and he said that sounds about right. Knowing my rights (interest free price and cash price cannot be different) I asked for the "best price" with the interest free. As you would imagine they tried their hardest to wriggle out of the deal. I made the mistake of not getting the name of the person who quoted the "best price" to me, but with over half an hour of standing my ground and working my way up the food chain they eventually gave in. Sure it wasn't a great experience but I got the TV $400 cheaper than ticket and can take 4 years to pay it off.

I would like to see the question "how are you thinking of paying for that" made ilegal - I wonder where I, and they, would stand by saying cash and then "changing my mind".

The moral of the story is don't back down if you are right - make a fuss - make a noise and make sure other customers are aware of your poor treatment.

Hindsight is great, but I would have gone back to the store with the flyer and demanded it!




Procrastination eventually pays off.


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  Reply # 325105 30-Apr-2010 09:16
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StarBlazer: I would like to see the question "how are you thinking of paying for that" made ilegal - I wonder where I, and they, would stand by saying cash and then "changing my mind".

Play the game: "I'm thinking about paying cash."  "That's the price?  Great, I thought about paying cash but have decided to take the interest free terms."

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 325118 30-Apr-2010 09:29
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Heh, sounds like someone's planning to spend money they don't have on toys they don't need, and expects it on a silver platter too :P

Not trying to insult anyone, but they are a business- they aren't out to get you and you shouldn't be out to get them either. Digging into debt for toys is a dangerous curve that easily gets out of control, especially in/right after a recession.

Keep the money where it can collect interest, or put it into debts/credit cards, and when you CAN afford it, that interest received/saved will knock even more off the price- not to mention the fact that the price of the product may have dropped a bit by then.

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  Reply # 325138 30-Apr-2010 09:53
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b0rg: Heh, sounds like someone's planning to spend money they don't have on toys they don't need, and expects it on a silver platter too :P

Not trying to insult anyone, but they are a business- they aren't out to get you and you shouldn't be out to get them either. Digging into debt for toys is a dangerous curve that easily gets out of control, especially in/right after a recession.

Keep the money where it can collect interest, or put it into debts/credit cards, and when you CAN afford it, that interest received/saved will knock even more off the price- not to mention the fact that the price of the product may have dropped a bit by then.

Heh, sounds like someone doesn't understand the time value of money.  What if I can afford it but would rather leave that cash in an interest bearing account over the next 4 years while I'm paying it off.  Only suckers turn down interest free terms, it's like another discount!  Unless, the setup and account fees are greater than the interest saving, which I doubt especially on a TV purchase.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 325139 30-Apr-2010 09:54
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b0rg:
Keep the money where it can collect interest, or put it into debts/credit cards, and when you CAN afford it, that interest received/saved will knock even more off the price- not to mention the fact that the price of the product may have dropped a bit by then.


Good advice and not insulted.  I wouldn't do this if I had to pay interest.  The cash is there earning interest took me a couple of years to save up - but why would I part with cash when I can get 4 years interest free? 

Companies use interest free to get people through the door.  When I worked in a camera shop we were told that there are no deals during the interest free offer period.  If the likes of HN want to offer deals while they are doing interest free - they will have to abide by the law - occasionally they will get caught out and have to do a deal.  If JB can sell a TV for $1991 compared to HN at $2599 - I'm sure that even at $2200 with free credit they still made some profit and ensured ongoing custom from me.

I've bought most of my stuff from HN since we moved to NZ and will continue to do so.  The bigger the ticket the harder I drive a bargain - they've had plenty of money from me at ticket price and will continue to do so.




Procrastination eventually pays off.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 325147 30-Apr-2010 10:04
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Sorry Lupins - gone off topic! My point is; if you are right - fight! If it's a great deal go in prepared - have the leaflet, print the web page - I even took a copy of the CGA on pricing and interest free deals because I knew it would be a battle.

Baiting is becoming an issue especially online - I know a couple of people who placed orders for a fantastic deal - one got an email saying out of stock for a month (even though the website still had it for sale showing as available) offering an unbranded alternative, the other received an "alternative of equal or higher value" (in their opinion) as written in the terms of sale. Thankfully they were both NZ based businesses and both backed down and gave refunds.




Procrastination eventually pays off.


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  Reply # 325165 30-Apr-2010 10:47
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Often retailers think if they put up a sign in-store they can get away with bait advertising.

It's all about quality control and cross checking stock with what's advertised before going to print.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 325209 30-Apr-2010 11:56
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timestyles: Totally unrelated - was in Bond and Bond recently buying something, overhead someone say that they got paid 3% commission, and about 11.50ish an hour.  


3% of what?  sale price or margin?  If it is 3% of sale price that is pretty good.

Where I used to work in consumer electronics retail (a few years back) we got revenue commission of something like 0.5% up to your target if you didn't make target,  1% on everything if you made target,  and 1.5% on anything over target.
10% commission on extended warranties too (which are basically worthless IMO)

then when I changed stores we got commission on margin - which worked very differently.

interestingly, we were never allowed to give a discount for cash.
Reaosn being - it costs us more to accept cash payment than it does any other method.
We didn't have to pay to offer interest free credit,   we actually got a commission for it (the company, not the salesperson).

the way it worked was pretty dodgy though.

we called it IFCO  'Interest Free credit Option'  because you got, say, 2 years interest free with incredibly low monthly payments but if you failed to pay off the balance in full after the 2 years you got 4 years worth of interest applied.  IOW it was interest bearing for 4 years, with an 'option' to get interest free if you paid it off within 2 years (which most people never did because they forgot)

from the company's POV we preferred to have people pay using IFCO than with cash.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 325308 30-Apr-2010 15:21
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bazzer:
Heh, sounds like someone doesn't understand the time value of money.  What if I can afford it but would rather leave that cash in an interest bearing account over the next 4 years while I'm paying it off.  Only suckers turn down interest free terms, it's like another discount!  Unless, the setup and account fees are greater than the interest saving, which I doubt especially on a TV purchase.


A $5000 deposit in an ASB term deposit gets 3% interest for 4 months or longer. Term deposits aren't the best investment, but they are easy, and generally reliable and secure compared to others.

If we take that $5000 (a good high value purchase, leaves more $ for the investment and returns), and calculate it over 4 years, that's $600 (EDIT: plus compounding interest of very little) return that you wouldn't get if you didn't take the interest free deal and paid cash outright (not counting the TD's fees). So if you do have the money, that's actually a nice bit of extra cash you could be making. Technically.

But practically, inflation is 2.8% PA over the past 8 years, so really your expected return of .2% is going to be wiped out by fees and charges on the deposit, and made completely impractical by the time and effort invested in both setting up the investment fund, and the 4yr interest free deal, then managing the fund and the payments for the purchase,- versus walking into the shop and buying it outright with cash for the same price.

If you have debts, interest rates can vary, but on a bank-loan or credit card, they'll cost between 10-22% interest, depending on your plan, so the savings are much better invested there.
But then if you have over $5k debt and have $5k spare cash... why hasn't the debt been paid??, hehe!

Also, if you had been putting the repayments into that debt in the first place instead of a $4k TV, you'd save even more on the debt and be able to get that TV at an 'overall' cost of much less, through better cashflow management. Of course, you wouldn't have the TV for that time...

Setup fees for those interest free deals can get as high as $125 I think... I'm not too sure... but there's also the threat that you can't ever be 100% sure that you'll be able to meet all the payments, especially over such a long period of time. The recession and job losses certainly screwed up a lot of people's finances and commitments to mortgages, car payments, hire-purchase agreements etc...


So IF you have $5000 laying around to invest today, investing the money elsewhere MAY make you enough to cover the setup charges on the 4yr deal, plus keep up with inflation on a 4yr term deposit over that time, but you'll be likely to be left with nothing saved for the extra effort.

That, my friend, is the value of money over time, and why hire-purchase, even on long interest free deals, often doesn't save money no matter how you work it, but will increase your workload and risk.

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  Reply # 325322 30-Apr-2010 15:41
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Jeez, what a Nana statement.  If the guy wants to do that, let him spend his money however he sees fit.  Maybe he wants the use of the TV whilst everyone else is sitting around saving their pennies.  You've only got one life, so do with it what you please.

The hire purchase set up fees can be around $40 I think, but once you have the account you don't pay any more to use it again in the future.  There is an annual service fee though, about $25 I think it is, so yes this does add up over time.

From your comments though, from the $600 gained, you lose about $100 in fees.  Saying you're losing out because of inflation is a cop out.  Sure that $500 gained will be worth less due to inflation, but the guy who didn't opt for the addition return (by saving longer until he could afford it) doesn't get jack.  $500 in the hand is still $500 more in the hand than doing nothing.

Regarding the original discussion, the poster should have stuck to their guns, and there's no point having guns if there's no ammo, so go armed with flyers etc to back you up.  Complaining later is a waste of time.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 329136 11-May-2010 20:59
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Well, adding to the class of Bond and Bond / Noel Leeming Groups customer serivce -

A month (about, I've stopped counting) later and I finally get a reply from the "customer care" manager.

Now just to keep you upto date, this now brings us to just under two months since original visit with a total three contacts from Bond and Bond / Noel Leeming Group, with one basically saying "it's your problem, if you came we'd have sold it." and two "I'll look into it its."

This message? a few senteces which amounts to "tell us the name of the person who served you."

... Hello? Why would I either know or remember this? I've told you the date, that it was a girl, and since there was only one  girl working there, it's hardly a far strech to work out who it was. Gee, maybe you could have used the last three weeks finding this out?

Pathetic serivce. I told them to stop wasting my time, and sent them a link to this thread, pointed out this is but one of many I started around the place, and that in total, with the ones that keep track of these things, there have been over 6000 people viewing these threads. 

Hope wasting my time was worth it.

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