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InstallerUFB
833 posts

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  #1172779 11-Nov-2014 12:40
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what about any voice circuits ? - laying a conduit with 2 external cat6 cables and a draw string in it will be the cheapest and easyest option for a small home office 

lokk @ page 2 of this pdf for depth and seperation guidelines http://www.chorus.co.nz/file/2689/urban-service-lead-final.pdf

tangerz
538 posts

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  #1172784 11-Nov-2014 12:42
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nic.wise: Digging a 40cm wide trench might not be worth it. (it's being dig by machine, too, not by hand)


?? How is it not worth it? If you got a machine to do the digging the solution is simple!

Dig a 40cm wide trench. Run power in conduit on one side of trench. Run outdoor Cat 6 cable in conduit on other side of trench. Use swept bends on the Cat 6 conduit and install a draw wire in case you want to add another cable later.

The cost and complexity of the fibre route makes no sense to me!

 
 
 
 


tangerz
538 posts

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  #1172788 11-Nov-2014 12:47
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InstallerUFB: what about any voice circuits ? - laying a conduit with 2 external cat6 cables and a draw string in it will be the cheapest and easyest option for a small home office 

lokk @ page 2 of this pdf for depth and seperation guidelines http://www.chorus.co.nz/file/2689/urban-service-lead-final.pdf


Haha! Beat me by a nose!

Cbfd
306 posts

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  #1172792 11-Nov-2014 12:55
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You can put power in a small trench first say about 600-700mm fown then back fill the small trench 200-300mm and lay the ducting for data ontop of that then back fill it all - no need to dig a trench 400mm wide

ubergeeknz
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  #1172803 11-Nov-2014 13:21
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OP said he wants Gigabit - surely that rules wifi out right away.

Fibre is the "right" solution because it provides electrical isolation between the buildings, will last virtually forever, and it will support higher speeds as required.

Cat6 will work as a (cheaper?) alternative.

But if you're going to the expense of a new building, trenching, and electrical wiring, the extra cost for installing fibre is a rounding error at best.  Why would you *not* do it...

nic.wise

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  #1172805 11-Nov-2014 13:28
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deadlyllama: nic: 40cm gap -- my understanding is "it's the rules" and primarily for safety.  You have to do the same thing with UFB and power in the same trench.  Options are side-by-side or one above the other -- put one conduit in, enough fill for the spacing, then more conduit and fill to the top.

franky: why use something exotic like optical/etc when you could use WiFi (with a pair of mikrotik/ubiquiti units)?


I might. I wanted to get, at minimum, 100Mbps, but I'd prefer Gbps if I can get it, and future proof it a little. The digger guy is coming tomorrow, so we'll get a ballpark quote for 100cm deep (60+40), 60cm deep + 40cm wide, or just the 60cm deep (power only) and I'll add my own WIFI cost over the top.

Why use optical? I assumed, wrongly, that I could run it IN the power conduit. Clearly I can't.




Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


nic.wise

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  #1172841 11-Nov-2014 13:56
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Thanks, everyone. I'm going to go with the following:

* Find out how much a 40cm wide trench is going to cost (or one which is 40cm deeper). Contractor is coming around tomorrow.

* CAT6 STP ($1.40/m, so around $75 for what I need which is a lot less than I expected).

And I might put 2 cables and a draw line thru when I do it, then I can break one, and pull a third thru if I really mess it up :)

Thanks for all the help and pointers! Much appreciated.






Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


 
 
 
 


chevrolux
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  #1172879 11-Nov-2014 14:49
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CAT6 STP ($1.40/m, so around $75 for what I need which is a lot less than I expected).


That sounds a bit cheap for Outdoor Cat 6. Is it outdoor rated cable? As in is it either gel filled or double PE sheathed?

As for voice cabling I have one acronym... VoIP

mdooher
Hmm, what to write...
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  #1174970 13-Nov-2014 09:33
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nic.wise: Thanks, everyone. I'm going to go with the following:

* Find out how much a 40cm wide trench is going to cost (or one which is 40cm deeper). Contractor is coming around tomorrow.

* CAT6 STP ($1.40/m, so around $75 for what I need which is a lot less than I expected).

And I might put 2 cables and a draw line thru when I do it, then I can break one, and pull a third thru if I really mess it up :)

Thanks for all the help and pointers! Much appreciated.




A couple of things.
There is no way you are going to be able to use a draw wire down 30m of conduit that already has cat5 or 6 in it. The friction is just far too great. (We'll ok if you get 50mm conduit and slather the wire in boy butter you might)

Just run 2 or 3 cat 5 or 6 cables and at least one RG6 cable down a some 20mm conduit. (Even that you will need to do in sections and join it in the trench) when you glue the conduit don't use the glue from the electrical wholesaler use the "same" stuff from the plumbing store. It is supposed to be the same thing but somehow it just isn't

Don't panic too much. if it fails one day just get some direct bury cat 5 and throw it in a trench as shallow as you want.





Matthew


nic.wise

196 posts

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  #1180717 21-Nov-2014 13:02
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Hey folks

Looks like I may not be able to run cable down there (too many "sensitive" trees - long story). So it might have to be WIFI.

It's only a 35m distance from building to building, so not far.

Anyone used these? 

http://www.gowifi.co.nz/access-points-802.11/outdoor-wireless-access-points/ubiquiti-uap-outdoor-ac-unifi-access-point-802.11ac.html

They claim 1.3Gbps thruput. Is that normal wifi claims? or actual thruput? Anyone actually tried them?

(or, failing that, does anyone know what gowifi's returns policy is like :) 7 days is enough time, easily, just more the "well, I took it out of the box and tried it out" aspect)

Thanks.




Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


deadlyllama
1018 posts

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  #1180781 21-Nov-2014 14:24
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What's between the buildings?  Line of sight, or a forest?  What are the exterior walls of the currently unconnected building made out of?

That Ubiquiti product is an outdoor AP designed to have laptops/etc connect directly to it.  So you'd need a laptop with 11ac to get the high speeds, and the 5GHz signal will have to go through the walls at the far end.  If it's a metal garage, you won't do too well.

If you want a wired connection at the far end you may be better with a pair of these: http://www.gowifi.co.nz/wisp-client-radios/mikrotik-routerboard-sxtg-dual-chain-802.11ac-16dbi-5ghz-antenna.html

I have a connection to my neighbour over the road (88m, no obstructions) using a pair of these http://www.gowifi.co.nz/coming-soon-new-products/mikrotik-rbsxt-lite5-5ghz-802.11a/n-bridge/cpe.html.  But they won't do more than 100Mbps. The wall mount used at my friend's end is nice and unobtrusive: http://www.gowifi.co.nz/mounting-hardware/antenna-mounting-hardware/rf-elements-easybracket-wall-mount.html

Gowifi will give you trade prices if you create an account and send them an email.

nic.wise

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  #1180806 21-Nov-2014 14:47
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@deadlyllama there are trees. Kind of. Not a lot of them, and most of them are fairly thin and quite far apart. This would be just under most of the canopy. This is kind of indicative (thats a bit further over, but looking in the same direction):



both buildings are shadow clad (wood panels) on the outside.

Mostly, I need speed, as my wife does a fair bit of photography stuff, and her files are on a synology NAS (which will be in the office), but she's likely to be in the house.

My intended topology is:


VDSL (Vigor 130)

ethernet to

AirPort Extreme -> house wifi. connects to iPads, laptops, appleTV, voip phone etc.

ethernet OR WIFI to <--- this is the one I'm talking about

AirPort Extreme -> office NAS's, Mac Mini (itunes only), laptops when they are in the office, etc

I dont need anything connecting to the bridges - just for them to throw packets from A to B and back.

I'm REALLY REALLY hoping that the landscaper is happy to dig a wider hole. Because of where we are zoned and the (native) trees we have, we have to minimize any root damage, so a 40cm wide trench maybe out. But it might not.





Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


deadlyllama
1018 posts

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  #1180817 21-Nov-2014 15:04
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If you can't do a 40cm wide trench, can you do one that's 40cm deeper, and narrow?

Alternatively you could cheat and bury the cat5e not very deep at all, via a different route (maybe use direct-bury cable and no conduit) and accept that if it fails you'll have to run another lot of it.

nic.wise

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  #1180821 21-Nov-2014 15:08
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yeah, the last one there might be a plan. Low/no voltage going thru it, so not a big safety issue.

Thanks :) Now I need to find direct bury cat5e




Nic Wise - Waiheke Island, New Zealand - www.fastchicken.co.nz


deadlyllama
1018 posts

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  #1180827 21-Nov-2014 15:22
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Yeah, I think the data cable safety issues tend to be around them being accidentally connected to something higher voltage (maybe via nail or spade), or induced current due to them being run parallel to power cables, too close, for too long a distance. You're not going to get a shock from Ethernet.

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