Cambium E400 40MHz Channel issues

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228 posts

Master Geek

#1644132 2-Oct-2016 13:23

Jase2985:

And like i said where is the "Major Vendor" documentation that you claim. you then have to ask why does pretty much every vendor offer devices that do 2x2 in the 2.4ghz space? if that is indeed the case

If you are in the middle of nowhere and have no wireless neighbours it should work AOK. Take that same design into a city and you have an issue. The vendor assumes you know what you are doing. Unfortunately the majority of people I meet in New Zealand installing 802.11 wireless have no wireless qualifications. They don't have a CCNP Wireless or higher, CWNP or higher, etc.

On the documentation front lets take Cisco (the largest wireless vendor with over 50% or the worldwide market):

The maximum bandwidth allowed for the 2.4-GHz band is 20MHz.

Source: http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/8-0/configuration-guide/b_cg80/b_cg80_chapter_01011101.html

Jase2985:

Its been fine on 1+5 and 8+12 for a good 5 days now, when i had it on 11 it changed strait away from 40Mhz to 20MHz so i dont think this is the issue at all as at the moment im covering all 13 channels

Let we answer your comment with a question. Assume your neighbour has an AP on channel 11 (so it is transmitting on 9, 10, 11 (centre channel), 12 and 13) and you configure your AP for channel 10 (so it is transmitting on 8, 9, 10 (centre channel), 11 and 12). You obviously have channel overlap so you will experience adjacent channel interference. Will your AP change channel to avoid the neighbour AP on channel 11?

Jase2985:

I'm happy if it performs to a non optimal level, i just want it to perform and have them realise that there is a problem.

Have you done a spectrum analysis? Channel 11 may be under heavy use or you may have a 4G cell site close to you that can adversely affect the upper 2.4 GHz channels.

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yitz

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#1644163 2-Oct-2016 14:12

2x2 has nothing to do with 40 MHz channels btw

Jase2985

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#1644166 2-Oct-2016 14:18

Crowdie:

Jase2985:

And like i said where is the "Major Vendor" documentation that you claim. you then have to ask why does pretty much every vendor offer devices that do 2x2 in the 2.4ghz space? if that is indeed the case

If you are in the middle of nowhere and have no wireless neighbours it should work AOK. Take that same design into a city and you have an issue. The vendor assumes you know what you are doing. Unfortunately the majority of people I meet in New Zealand installing 802.11 wireless have no wireless qualifications. They don't have a CCNP Wireless or higher, CWNP or higher, etc.

On the documentation front lets take Cisco (the largest wireless vendor with over 50% or the worldwide market):

The maximum bandwidth allowed for the 2.4-GHz band is 20MHz.

Source: http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/8-0/configuration-guide/b_cg80/b_cg80_chapter_01011101.html

What about the other AP vendors? cambium, ubnt, dlink, tp link netgear netcomm etc etc? just having one expample doesnt make it gospal. how much cisco gear are in people homes? not a lot, as its mainly commercial/enterprise stuff.

you also don't require any qualification in NZ to install a home access point as long as it meets NZ standards for RSM, so again its a moot point

Crowdie:

Jase2985:

Its been fine on 1+5 and 8+12 for a good 5 days now, when i had it on 11 it changed strait away from 40Mhz to 20MHz so i dont think this is the issue at all as at the moment im covering all 13 channels

Let we answer your comment with a question. Assume your neighbour has an AP on channel 11 (so it is transmitting on 9, 10, 11 (centre channel), 12 and 13) and you configure your AP for channel 10 (so it is transmitting on 8, 9, 10 (centre channel), 11 and 12). You obviously have channel overlap so you will experience adjacent channel interference. Will your AP change channel to avoid the neighbour AP on channel 11?

the access point at the moment isnt working in auto and 40MHz (ie wont hold 40MHz), and when i did have it in auto on a 20MHz channel it put its self on channel 6 where there was 3 other access points, it should have used 1 where there were no others. when its on a 40MHz channel there really is not a lot it can do to avoid the neighbours. Their signal is 85dBm or less so its barely recognisable on my laptop and the AP doesn't seem to see them at all.

Crowdie:

Jase2985:

I'm happy if it performs to a non optimal level, i just want it to perform and have them realise that there is a problem.

Have you done a spectrum analysis? Channel 11 may be under heavy use or you may have a 4G cell site close to you that can adversely affect the upper 2.4 GHz channels.

Im confident its not spectrum related as its only doing it on a few settings, ie 9 10 11 and 12. If it set it to 8 it uses 8+12, which is essentially the same as setting it to 12+8

I have a spark tower on 850, 1800 and 2100MHz which is about 150m away and a 2d tower about 250m with 900, 1800 and 2100MHz. so nothing thats going to interfear with the Upper end of the 2.4ghz wifi spectrum.

@Crowdie im pretty sure its a device issue so i would appreciate it if you would refrain from commenting unless you have an E400 and can do any sort of testing and confirm you have the same issue.

hio77

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#1644327 2-Oct-2016 19:51

Jase2985:

What about the other AP vendors? cambium, ubnt, dlink, tp link netgear netcomm etc etc? just having one expample doesnt make it gospal. how much cisco gear are in people homes? not a lot, as its mainly commercial/enterprise stuff.

you also don't require any qualification in NZ to install a home access point as long as it meets NZ standards for RSM, so again its a moot point

linksys products are cisco too, have been for a long time now.

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fe31nz

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#1644423 2-Oct-2016 22:33

hio77:

linksys products are cisco too, have been for a long time now.

Not for a couple of years now - Cisco sold their Linksys business to Belkin.

hio77

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#1644464 3-Oct-2016 00:15

fe31nz:

hio77:

linksys products are cisco too, have been for a long time now.

Not for a couple of years now - Cisco sold their Linksys business to Belkin.

thought it was the other way round, my bad.

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coffeebaron

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#1644500 3-Oct-2016 08:46

I used to have a 2.4 wireless AP set to channel 11 & 40 MHz. Apple devices would not connect. I worked out the Apple devices wouldn't do channel 13 and this is what the AP was using as extension channel. Anyway, just an other possible theory to explore.

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Earbanean

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#1644729 3-Oct-2016 14:16

I've upgraded the firmware, but not changed the 2.4 channel width yet. Not sure that I have reson to do so.

One thing that interests me though, is with 2 APs both on Auto channel slection, how it decides to set them. I would have hoped that the cnMaestro controller would somehow be able to set both of them in a way that optimises the combination of the two. However, I suspect that when one is rebooted, it just looks to best set that one - by looking at all noise it sees (which would include the other E400).

e.g. Say channel 6 is super noisey and say without my two APs on, the noise on the West side of the house is higher on channel 11 and the East side noise higher on channel 1. So, all else being equal, you'd want the West side E400 on channel 1 and the East side E400 on channel 11. But if West E400 has already been put on 11 when East is rebooted, then I think the East E400 will end up on 1.

Obviously, if that scenario was always the case, I could just manually set them optimally using WiFi Analyser or similar. However, there seems to a bit of an ongoing game of cat and mouse around the neighbourhood, so the situation changes daily. I'm guessing that's mostly by routers/APs on auto selection, rather than humans trying to eke out clear air.

Note, I only have 2 decices left on 2.4 GHz, but one of them is a stereo in the kitchen near a fridge and mcrowave, so I'd like to give it the best link possible. Otherwise I might need to go to powerline adapters or something.

hio77

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#1644732 3-Oct-2016 14:19

hio77:

Jase2985:

you have the latest firmware?

cloud dashboard does not want to load right now, pretty sure i am though.

3.0-r33 (2.53)

Pulling back to the bug noticed with networks dropping off, Have confirmed now im on the newest firmware.

so a few bugs..

- their cloud management is not happy in chrome at all.

- 40Mhz channels do not seem to become active at all (not that im personally concerned here, 5ghz is for the load not 2.4. but its a bug it seems none the less)

- Switching on 40Mhz seems to stop broadcasting multiple SSID's

I'll look to make contact and file some proper bug reports with Cambium when i have a free moment, but ill throw @rwittert in here encase its a known thing that can be pointed to before i get to checking it all out.

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Earbanean

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Ultimate Geek

#1644736 3-Oct-2016 14:32

hio77:

- their cloud management is not happy in chrome at all.

Yep, I can also confirm that one. Figured out I had to use IE.

rwittert

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Cambium Networks

#1644995 4-Oct-2016 06:18

Chrome issue will be fixed in the cnMaestro 1.2.1 release. In the meantime, other browsers can be used. The following forum post highlights this. It is pinned to the top of our forum.

http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/cnMaestro-Beta/Chrome-browser-Can-not-login-to-cnMaestro-UI/m-p/59448#U59448

rwittert

19 posts

Geek

Cambium Networks

#1645285 4-Oct-2016 16:04

For 40MHz we suspect you may have some other AP on the extension channel, which makes us fallback to 20MHz (that’s what the standard requires us to do). To confirm this, can you have them run the following commands from the CLI of the device (SSH into it and try):

E400-B16E00(config-radio-1)# no ht40-channel-intolerance
E400-B16E00(config-radio-1)# no ht40-client-intolerance
E400-B16E00(config-radio-1)# save

This makes us disable the check, and stay in 40MHz mode even if there is a neighboring AP. Its not a ‘good neighborly’ thing to do, which is why we did not add it to the GUI, but from the CLI this is a good test to try.

Jase2985

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#1645299 4-Oct-2016 16:49

@rwittert thanks for the response

my question is there are currently 2 other access points on channel 5. One of my access points is setup to be 40MHz on channel 1 so that puts it on channel 1 and channel 5. In manual it has no trouble holding 40MHz.

The second access point wont hold channel 11 (so should be 11 + 7) but there is only one other access point on channel 11. so i cant see why i couldnt use channel 10+6 or 11+7, but the device just wont accept that and falls back to 20MHz, but it will happily let me use 8+12.

All other access poitns i can see have a signal less than 80dB so only just reading on the software, an in the wifi analyser on the device

ill give that ago when i get a chance

Crowdie

228 posts

Master Geek

#1645841 5-Oct-2016 12:35

Jase2985:

my question is there are currently 2 other access points on channel 5. One of my access points is setup to be 40MHz on channel 1 so that puts it on channel 1 and channel 5. In manual it has no trouble holding 40MHz.

No. That puts the first 20 MHz channel on channels 1, 2 and 3 with the second 20 MHz channel on channels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. You have channel overlap on channel 3 - bad.

In manual you are telling the access point to ignore any interference so hence why it is not moving.

Jase2985:

The second access point wont hold channel 11 (so should be 11 + 7) but there is only one other access point on channel 11. so i cant see why i couldnt use channel 10+6 or 11+7, but the device just wont accept that and falls back to 20MHz, but it will happily let me use 8+12.

No. If the 20 MHz channel has a centre channel of 11 it is covering channels 9, 10 , 11, 12 and 13. Therefore the second 20 MHz channel should be 6 - covering channels 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

The only 2.4 GHz centre channels you should be using are 1 (1,2 and 3), 6 (4, 5, 6, 7 and 8) and 11 (9, 10, 11, 12 and 13).

Jase2985:

All other access points i can see have a signal less than 80dB so only just reading on the software, an in the wifi analyser on the device

Any signal with a RSSI of -82 dBm or higher will affect the access point's radio resource management.

Jase2985

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#1645964 5-Oct-2016 14:53

@crowdie

like i keep saying ive tried channel 11 (11 + 7), it doesnt like it, ive tried channel 12 (12 + 8) it doesn't like it, ive tried channel 10 (10 + 6) it doesnt like it, ive tried channel 9 (9 +5) it doesnt like it, and i tried channel 8 (8+12) and it worked fine. when i put it on channel 7 it defaults to 7+3 and i cant force it to us the upper channel) i would love to use a center channel of 11 it just wont let me, hence the thread hence me asking. it seems like there is a bug or something thats stopping it doing it.

i have one access point that i can see that has an RSSI of greater than -82dB, the rest are closer to 90. that is on channel 5 and it has has no impact on the AP set on 1+5 so i cant see how it can affect the one on 11+7 when its closer to the other radio.

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