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Mr Snotty
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  Reply # 2087122 10-Sep-2018 19:26
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Batman:

 

hi michaelmurphy 

 

just wondering - does this windows 10 "problem" cause lag in online gaming by any chance?

 

Have not seen it cause "lag" - just slow internet speeds (however network speeds remain at Gigabit). Speedtest's site is terrible regardless, even on Linux I get random speeds but have confirmed I can get Gigabit (or close to) via iperf3.

 

On my PC I was capping out at 200Mbit on Windows (and this was real world) as well as getting Gigabit speeds to my server yet on Linux I get 930Mbit to the internet. Go figure...





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  Reply # 2087129 10-Sep-2018 19:51
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michaelmurfy:

 

Gomac:

 

The OS is Windows 10 Pro.

 

As I said above - this is the problem.

 

Try booting into Linux (Ubuntu Linux works) and you'll get full speed.

 

 

I'd be interested to know what about Windows 10 causes slow network speeds.. .I ask because every Windows 10 machine I have achieves expected speeds. Are you sure you're not grossly generalising?

 

Cheers - N

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2087147 10-Sep-2018 20:07
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My old i7 machine with the disaster of a killer nic was all over the place speedwise, added a universally regarded as junk realtek card to it and speeds were great, new machine still an i3 (this one 8100) and its giving great speeds, the new i3 is actually on tests about as fast as my old i7 was.





Richard rich.ms

Mr Snotty
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  Reply # 2087199 11-Sep-2018 00:28
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Talkiet:

 

I'd be interested to know what about Windows 10 causes slow network speeds.. .I ask because every Windows 10 machine I have achieves expected speeds. Are you sure you're not grossly generalising?

 

Cheers - N

 

This does depend on several factors however I did test this across a few PC's running Windows with the same results. It may have been fixed in a newer build perhaps (I do run Linux normally) but I do also know many many people who had the same problem with Windows around 3 months ago. Booting into Linux with Firefox is able to almost max out the connection on all occasions I've tested on PC's that "should" be able to do Gigabit.

 

From what I understand however you're on 100/20Mbit. The problem won't occur with you - it basically occurs on Gigabit connections where Windows "seems" to limit internet speeds to around 300-500Mbit and 100Mbit upload.

 

My PC is no slouch either - it is a recent 8 core, 16 thread Xeon powered workstation with 32gb ECC ram, SSD's in a hardware raid and Intel networking. Windows 7 (installed locally) didn't have any issues, Windows 10 did and now Linux doesn't have any issues. I did try reinstalling Windows 10 with zero success and also got the exact same issue on a Core i5 based PC I used as testing (where again, Linux didn't show any signs of slowing down).

 

I wasted too much time on this issue concluding Windows was at fault in all my cases. Your experience may differ depending on perhaps your hardware and software configuration. but I also know my ISP (2degrees) has seen this issue elsewhere also including with several people on Geekzone.





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  Reply # 2087200 11-Sep-2018 00:43
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Any firewall software running on the pc? Anything odd burning CPU when running those tests? Can you test both udp and tcp separately?

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  Reply # 2087202 11-Sep-2018 01:07
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michaelmurfy:

 

Talkiet:

 

I'd be interested to know what about Windows 10 causes slow network speeds.. .I ask because every Windows 10 machine I have achieves expected speeds. Are you sure you're not grossly generalising?

 

Cheers - N

 

This does depend on several factors however I did test this across a few PC's running Windows with the same results. It may have been fixed in a newer build perhaps (I do run Linux normally) but I do also know many many people who had the same problem with Windows around 3 months ago. Booting into Linux with Firefox is able to almost max out the connection on all occasions I've tested on PC's that "should" be able to do Gigabit.

 

From what I understand however you're on 100/20Mbit. The problem won't occur with you - it basically occurs on Gigabit connections where Windows "seems" to limit internet speeds to around 300-500Mbit and 100Mbit upload.

 

My PC is no slouch either - it is a recent 8 core, 16 thread Xeon powered workstation with 32gb ECC ram, SSD's in a hardware raid and Intel networking. Windows 7 (installed locally) didn't have any issues, Windows 10 did and now Linux doesn't have any issues. I did try reinstalling Windows 10 with zero success and also got the exact same issue on a Core i5 based PC I used as testing (where again, Linux didn't show any signs of slowing down).

 

I wasted too much time on this issue concluding Windows was at fault in all my cases. Your experience may differ depending on perhaps your hardware and software configuration. but I also know my ISP (2degrees) has seen this issue elsewhere also including with several people on Geekzone.

 

 

I do currently have 100/20, but previously have had multiple gig lines into my place for testing performance and the impact of various network configurations on throughput and real world experience. As part of that extensive testing I did a lot of work with iperf on Linux and windows, as well as several other testing methods. Regardless of your (and your friends) experience, it's simply not accurate to suggest there's anything intrinsic in the Windows 10 IP stack that causes an issue for performance up to gig levels. That's not to say bad drivers or other software interfering (firewalls, AV etc) aren't contributing to the observed issues, but it's not Windows.

 

Unless you can offer better than anecdotal evidence, I'm saying it's completely unreasonable to blame Windows 10. I know of many people successfully getting near gig results (940/490+) on Windows 10. Quite a few of those instances were from escalated issues where they weren't initially getting the expected speeds but after finding and fixing the issues they did, without changing their OS from Win10.

 

I'm even going to assert that if 2D think that there's an intrinsic issue with Windows 10 and gig connections, then they too have a misunderstanding - although I suspect you probably aren't fairly representing their belief. I'm certainly not saying that they and you haven't observed the performance issues, but I am saying the issue isn't Windows 10. It will be drivers or hardware or some add on software.

 

Cheers - N

 

 


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  Reply # 2087242 11-Sep-2018 06:37
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Fwiw I'm on Windows 10 Pro and get 950/490 Mbps from the word go




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  Reply # 2087252 11-Sep-2018 07:30
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Batman: Fwiw I'm on Windows 10 Pro and get 950/490 Mbps from the word go

 

As I said:
1) No, I don't run Windows as my main OS.
2) I wasted way too much time with this (along with @freitasm).
3) This may have been fixed on a future OS build however was a problem at the time of testing for me and around 10 other people.
4) This was Windows 10 running on hardware, no other software installed apart from Firefox & Chrome, updates had been done.

 

This was kinda resolved by changing the Windows QoS settings combined with using TCP Optimizer (https://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php) (in my case different driver revisions didn't help) and since I even tried a different Ethernet card the fact that changing to Linux boosted my speeds back to their normal level (and others back to a normal level by testing with Linux) indicates a Windows issue.

 

It is just a suggestion based on experience hence why I asked the OP to try it. I didn't ask to be proven wrong as I'm fully aware that since I do use Linux exclusively I may now be incorrect as this problem is likely fixed but it is always a good suggestion to rule out software or driver issues if a PC can't get Gigabit speeds.





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  Reply # 2087258 11-Sep-2018 07:57
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I think we're just saying that not all Windows PC automatically have this problem (to bring balance to the force), and that we appreciate that Windows 10 can itself cause this problem with a fully capable hardware.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  Reply # 2087283 11-Sep-2018 09:16
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Windows 10 wasn't 'fixed'. It was never broken in terms of the IP stack to begin with. The issues will have been driver or software or hardware based.

 

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 2087285 11-Sep-2018 09:23
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I have only seen the problem with Windows 10 Home edition, and only on some machines.
Internet download speed maxs out at about 400Mb/s, No mater how you test or what the download source is. LAN to LAN through put will however will still run at around 800+Mb/s in either direction. So not hardware constrained.

 

Boot the same machine on Linux and you will see 800Mb/s download speeds consistently.

 

So I see it as a Windows 10 issue with some mix of hardware for Internet traffic only. Which leads me to think there is a problem with how Windows 10s network QOS stuff works or not works with some combinations of hardware.

 

However in the real world I have not really seen it impact on the day to day normal use of the Internet for the user.

 

Edit: Spelling

 

 


I fix stuff!
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  Reply # 2087290 11-Sep-2018 09:29
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Talkiet:

 

Windows 10 wasn't 'fixed'. It was never broken in terms of the IP stack to begin with. The issues will have been driver or software or hardware based.

 

Cheers - N

 

 

 

 

I would agree with that.

 

In our testing we found that Windows 7 was broken compared to Windows 10. Windows 10 was fine.

 

Windows 7 worked differently on the way it did its window sizing and burst which had an affect on some LFC's.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2088135 12-Sep-2018 11:19
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Gomac:

 

Just installed Speedtest app for Windows and retested. Download speed boosted to 650Mbps and upload speed surprisingly went up to 1,400Mbps. Sounds nonsense.

 

 

 

 

just for a laugh I dragged out my trully ancient Gateway LT32 this morning - only device I've got with win10 home on, and with it's ancient AMD Athlon Neo II K125 single core cpu about 1/10th the speed off a 4th gen i3.

 

 

 

Plugged in via GBe and running the speedtest app against known good server I can consistently hit low 900s off with a 2015 macbook pro,  I was bouncing between high 600s to low 800s in the speedtest app (with a high degree of variability)

 

 

 

So whilst at 650mbps it'd be easy to blame the bottleneck on the speedtest app maxing out your 'lowly' i3 cpu (since you've already proven you can pass SMB traffic over the lan at gigabit rate obviously it's not the win10 ip stack), I still think you've got something else slowing you down - have you got a 3rd party firewall on the pc? (the lt32 is absolutely bare/stock win10home 1803 - since it's only purpose in life now is being plugged in to routers to let me ssh in).

 

 

 

Speedtest isn't a great benchmark anyway - on fast links it just doesn't push enough data up down to get meaningful number (especially on it's upload test as you saw)

 

 


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  Reply # 2095287 24-Sep-2018 03:20
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This was sort of hinted at with richms's reply but maybe it's worth emphasising given the recommendations to upgrade drivers. If you have have a killer NIC make sure you get the barebones/driver only installer or INF package currently here https://www.killernetworking.com/killersupport/driver-downloads/category/other-downloads . The software is known to cause lots of weird crap including with speed tests. If having problems, make sure you don't already have the Killer software. (I know someone who was sure they took care not to install it but somehow it got installed.) If you do uninstall it before installing the driver only package. (Download the driver package before uninstalling anything for obvious reasons.) 


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  Reply # 2095291 24-Sep-2018 06:34
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And that is the trouble with Windows 10. You can tell it not to install a driver but it doesn't care. It searches the internet for drivers and installs it during major updates.




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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