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  # 2162841 17-Jan-2019 23:03
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Well, I guess this job has been discussed quite well

@mattwnz, with all the changes have your parents actually got a usable phone and data network in the house now?




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  # 2162863 18-Jan-2019 05:42
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mattwnz:

 

Jase2985:

 

should never plan to put the wifi router in the cabinet in the first place. if you are going to just the the one device place it central and patch it back to the switches in the cabinet. this way you have good wifi where you need it.

 

the better solution is to run an access point or 2 around the house to give good coverage wverywhere.

 

 

 

 

Yes that is what I suggested to them. But I imagine they would need a patch panel in the HDP to do that? 

 

 

nope, as long as the ont can be plugged into the Ethernet cable going to where ever the router is going to go, and there are at least 2 Ethernet cables in that location it will work fine.

 

in your situation with the current wiring you might need a short male to female extension to connect to the correct cable


 
 
 
 


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  # 2162878 18-Jan-2019 07:53
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raytaylor:

 

chevrolux: There is no technical benefit to terminating on a patch panel though.

 

 

 

The cabling leaving the homehub is solid core. If it was terminated to an RJ45 socket, and used as a patch cable, the risk is that copper fatigue could cause problems over time with being moved etc. 

 

Where as by terminating it to a patch panel, the user then can use short patch cables which use stranded copper and dont suffer fatigue from movement, and are easily replaceable if they do get damaged - such as the locking tab from a plug being bent off. 

 

 

The chance of that actually being an issue in a home I would say is zero to none. Things are generally going to be set and forget.


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  # 2162882 18-Jan-2019 08:04
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Here is the cabinet I did for my father lol... Showed up and all the "Tools" he had that "I didn't need to worry about bringing" were non existent so made do. Sparkie had left us that gaping hole, his cable runs were a mix of two holes in the top place and then a couple runs down under the house. (We specifically asked for all to be roof run)

 

 

 

Thats the switch plates we used. Cabinet has switches, modem, NVR and splitter for TV. 


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  # 2162884 18-Jan-2019 08:13
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Coil:

 



 

 

 

 

 

Top RJ45's are upside down. smile


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  # 2162888 18-Jan-2019 08:28
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chevrolux:

 

What's wrong with the fix?

 

I would say totally sufficient considering the small amount of space available. And it will easily be re-patched in to a voice panel, or IR extender, or HDMI extender etc etc

 

We can all live in perfect worlds of have certified structured cabling permanent links, but the home is more often than not a perfect world. 

 

Edit: The only thing I would say REALLY lacking is some form of labeling.

 

 

No we can't always live in a perfect world, but when you are paying for an obviously larger than normal install in a new house, I expect pretty close to perfect. If I was the client, I'd be taking issue that it's not terminated in patch panels, it's not labelled, and the use of multiple switches. 

 

 





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  # 2162889 18-Jan-2019 08:31
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sbiddle:

 

Top RJ45's are upside down. smile

 

 

 

 

does it really matter? makes it easier to unplug as the clips are more accessable


 
 
 
 


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  # 2162892 18-Jan-2019 08:39
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sbiddle:

 

Coil:

 



 

 

 

 

 

Top RJ45's are upside down. smile

 

 

Do you have slinky Alien fingers to release the tab ;) 
I knew you were a hybrid!


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  # 2162894 18-Jan-2019 08:40
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Lias:

 

chevrolux:

 

What's wrong with the fix?

 

I would say totally sufficient considering the small amount of space available. And it will easily be re-patched in to a voice panel, or IR extender, or HDMI extender etc etc

 

We can all live in perfect worlds of have certified structured cabling permanent links, but the home is more often than not a perfect world. 

 

Edit: The only thing I would say REALLY lacking is some form of labeling.

 

 

No we can't always live in a perfect world, but when you are paying for an obviously larger than normal install in a new house, I expect pretty close to perfect. If I was the client, I'd be taking issue that it's not terminated in patch panels, it's not labelled, and the use of multiple switches. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The sparkie who wired my dads house didn't label a thing, took me two hours with a tone tester to label everything. 
He also ran RG6 and 1 Cat 6 to each camera point when I asked for two Cat 6 (1 redundant)... Who the hell uses coax cameras?!?!?! 


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  # 2162895 18-Jan-2019 08:41
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Jase2985:

 

does it really matter? makes it easier to unplug as the clips are more accessable

 

 

Dirt collects on the pins more easily and corrodes them


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  # 2162909 18-Jan-2019 09:01
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Jase2985:

 

sbiddle:

 

Top RJ45's are upside down. smile

 

 

 

 

does it really matter? makes it easier to unplug as the clips are more accessable

 

 

As already mentioned above the official reasons are in the spec are to prevent dust and moisture settling on the connectors. In the real world does it really matter? Probably not.

 

It does however show that whoever did it has not undergone any real training or understanding of connectors which is really the key thing as it's one of the first key things you'll learn.

 

 


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  # 2162916 18-Jan-2019 09:07
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sbiddle:

 

Jase2985:

 

sbiddle:

 

Top RJ45's are upside down. smile

 

 

 

 

does it really matter? makes it easier to unplug as the clips are more accessable

 

 

As already mentioned above the official reasons are in the spec are to prevent dust and moisture settling on the connectors. In the real world does it really matter? Probably not.

 

It does however show that whoever did it has not undergone any real training or understanding of connectors which is really the key thing as it's one of the first key things you'll learn.

 

 

 

 

I did it, and I'm somewhat trained. 

I also did that intentionally as my dad has big fat fingers and I'd rather not be called 2 hours of out Auckland cause he broke one out of the socket cause he couldn't get his finger in there.... If there is moisture in his house that would affect those sockets, then he has a much larger issue at hand.. Logic prevails... 

But I know you already know this. 


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  # 2162917 18-Jan-2019 09:07
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Correct, formal training by all cable vendors I have seen require sockets oriented the correct way if you want warranty. Not much of an issue in domestic, but commercial, it's imperative.

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  # 2177930 13-Feb-2019 20:37
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InstallerUFB: Yep problem is now it's gone to the other extreme ie they are now all data only

 

 

I don't think you know what you are talking about

 

 

chevrolux: There is no technical benefit to terminating on a patch panel though.

 

 

The benefit is that when the connectors break from usage they can be replaced, the benefit is that you can easily re-use the wire for other purposes without having to buy a female-female adapter, the benefit is that this is how you can tell if the installer knows what they are doing or just guessing.



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  # 2184575 21-Feb-2019 00:59
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Just to give an update on this. Nothing much has progressed on this.

 

After the issues with the first home distribution box install (see first post) we insisted that the builder gets the installer to provide a network plan, as well as consult and work with a networking expert. The installer is employed directly by the builder. In the specs of the house built, it does say that the installer is to be an experienced network installer, and  has  to provide a plan  that the client has to agree with prior to the work being carried out.  They however didn't provide this before they started work on the network install, and have only just provided this today. The install was also to be to the TCF Premises Wiring   Cable Installers Guidelines for   Telecommunication Services  . https://www.tcf.org.nz/assets/guidelines/tcf-premises-wiring-cable-installers-guidelines-endorsed-oct-2015.pdf The home distributor box layout should have looked similar to the one in that document in the photo on  page 30 which includes terminating the cat6 cables to a patch panel.

 

We do want it to have a patch panel, which is one of the requirements in the TCL document. We want the patch panel for a range of reasons, partly for the reasons people have previously mentioned, including wear and tear on plugs and cables, cable management and naming of jacks making identification easier etc.

 

We did say from the start when they initially inserted the box into the wall,  that the home distributor box looked too small for the number of cables coming into it. It was also supposed to have 2 double hotpoints in the box as this is shown on the plans. However they didn't install the hotpoints in it, instead they are outside the cabinet to the left, so the hotpoints don't have any purpose in that position, and they were aware of all this prior to the network install. So they have had to install a single double hotpoint in the cabinet, and from the layout plan of the box, it looks like they are then having to install a multiboard, which takes up more room.

 

We have already told them that we want the cat6 cables to terminate to patch panels, but they haven't included this in this diagram or components list. As suggested by others, these look to be a good brand for patch panels  http://www.dynamix.co.nz/PP10-C6-12 .  I think the reason they have omitted them is because their isn't enough room in the cabinet to have them as well as teh patch leads, as it is already full with the switches, the ONT, the TV splitter box  etc. It looks to be a standard small cabinet.

 

This is their parts schedule and plan they have just provided us below

 

 

 

Data Cabinet Parts Schedule

 

 

 

Hubbell Cat6a 4-Pair Data cable throughout. (Blue and Grey)

 

Hubbell Home/Work 28 Enclosure

 

NetGear 16 Port x 3 8 Port x 1 Gigabit Ethernet Switch

 

NetGear 5 Port PoE GigE

 

PDL Shallow Mounting Block

 

PDL 695 Double Horizontal Switched Socket

 

PDL 600 Series RJ45 Switch Mod Data Plus Cat6 BK

 

Dynamix RJ45 Modular Plugs

 

Belden RG6 Coax 75ohm Sky BK and WH

 

Match Master F-Type RG6 Connectors

 

Match Master 8way Splitter

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would welcome peoples opinions on what has been spec’d and layout of the HDP , for both the network and tv cabling (which will just be for UHF freeview). As it will have a couple of security cameras on the network, we did ask for a 5 port POE switch. But is this the best way to do it?

 

Do people think they should just install a new larger surface mounted cabinet that is a more appropriate size. That way there is more space for them to install patch panels, and space between components with ventilation. They could then include the 2x double hotpoints that should have been in the box originally. Space isn’t a problem, as this is inside a large cupboard that was designed to house a large home distribution cabinet. Personally I think installing a new box  is the only solution, but finding one that is wide and long isn’t that easy, unless custom made . Most seem to just be long but narrow, and I think the cat6 cables now that they have been cut, could possibly be too short to wire into vertical patch panels in a long cabinet.  


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