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Topic # 25133 12-Aug-2008 21:49
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Sorry if this is a bit of a nub question but;

As part of a renovation project, new CAT5 cable (8 strand) was laid from the telecom box and then daisy chained to 5 sockets in my house a couple of years ago.  They are connected to the phone line with the blue wires. My question is can I use the exisiting left over wires in the CAT5 cable to route back an ethernet connection from the router lan connection and then hook up to a comp in a seperate room? (via a second socket) Unfortunately only one cable is there & it is not possible to relay an extra cable. Is this feasible and are there any pitfalls ? Is this as simple as adding a second gang socket & then connecting up the coloured  strands on the existing daisy chain. If so what colours & can you cannect to more than one socket ie - split a signal ?

Cheers

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  Reply # 156415 12-Aug-2008 21:55
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So long as you are only using 10Base-T or 100Base-T, it only needs 4 wires (2 pairs), so Yes, you can easily do what you are wanting, no problem.

This page: http://www.incentre.net/incentre/frame/ethernet.html

has all the info. on the colour codes which can be used.  As you can see near the bottom of the page, the Blue Pair is not used for 10Base-T or 100Base-T so you should be sweet.

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  Reply # 156416 12-Aug-2008 21:57
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splitting a single wire run to handle 2 x network connections or 1 phone and 1 network is quite common.  100mpbs networks dont seem to have too many issues in this configuration, but you cant do it with GigE as it uses all four cable pairs! (100baset only uses 2 pair)

Dick Smith have a "data/voice" splitter in their catalog, other networking supplies will probably have 2xdata splitters available (remember that you need one at each end)
http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/48a15d23045fa7022740c0a87f3b0660/Product/View/XH4248




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  Reply # 156432 12-Aug-2008 22:24
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Thanks for the prompt replies chaps, I'll give that a go !

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  Reply # 156506 13-Aug-2008 09:39
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If you put in a wall socket at each end it makes it really easy to wire.



Just connect the Green and Orange pairs.

Just ensure that If you use the Top line of colors, use it at both ends.

Same if you use the bottom.

Cheers




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  Reply # 156512 13-Aug-2008 10:17
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How many sockets along are you wanting to install the RJ45 socket? Are the wires at each BT jackpoint all cut or are they looped inside the jackpoint? If the others are all cut you're obviously going to need some scotchlok connectors to join these but we wary of the issue that more than several joins in the cable could easily affect the speed of the connection.


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  Reply # 156535 13-Aug-2008 11:41
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As the other have said you only need to use the green and orange pairs to support ethernet. If you are just wanting to shift ethernet along one section (ie between two current phone jack points with a single section of cat5 between them) then depending on what phone sockets you have ( I assume PDL), I would replace the socket at each end with a dual mech PDL plate, in one hole of each put the BT and the other a RJ45 keystone, wire the green and orange to the RJ45 observing the 10-15mm unsheathed requirements to meet cat5e but leave the blue pair extra long so it can be attached to the BT socket.

If you want to go more rooms than one you cannot reliably extend cat5e cable for ethernet using scotchlocks or similar, you can get cat5e rated inline joiners, but not recommended, better option is to place a switch at each room and extened each sector on like that.

In the US you can get a rather nice flushbox mounting ethernet switch that is designed to overcome exactly this single daisy chain issue. The switch has two faceplate ports for room connections, and two 110 IDCs on the rear so you can connect the inbound and outbound circuits, you would have to pull the phone out yourself. The switch is naturally powered and has 115VAC terminations for that. Have not seen them here, but there would be a market for retro fitting houses that are daisy chain wired.

Cyril



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  Reply # 156732 13-Aug-2008 22:03
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Excellent replies, thanks.

Yes fortunately the extra wires have been wound back rather than cut. The faceplates are mainly single moulded clipsal, so will need replacing with multigang anyway if I go ahead, it appears you like PDL the best Cyril ? I have looked around the trade shops, all a bit much of a muchness with bog standard kit and yes you are right Cyril there is some impressive looking kit o/seas but not much here, could be an option to import or have a look when I'm next away. Is there a paricular switch thats best suited?

I have also been reading one of Cyril's old posts about master adsl filters & the MM3200B. Can you use this to put out a daisy chained POTS & Adsl line ? I have access to the first line in of cable from the street & box, after that, it moves upstairs...  Those single ADSL dongles are a bit ugly aswell & possibly unreliable. Or a flushbox that had in built switch & filters would be nice !

My other project is to pre lay some more CAT5e or CAT6 cable in the remaining bedrooms under the house that will probably not be used immediately (easy access under house wooden floors), before I lay insulation blanket. Don't want to be ripping it out in 10 years time...


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  Reply # 156773 14-Aug-2008 08:21
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Hi, yes I prefer PDL to Clipsal, the mechs always seem to fall out of clipsal, if you look at the way the two are built the PDL is impossible to push back into the box without destroying it, the clipsal has simple clips that are easily forced, and with time loose there grip and often fall out for no reason. Also the selection in Clipsal is less than Keystone which PDL support.

BT sockets for PDL or Clipsal cost a bomb, and not worth the cost, if it were me I would rip all the BTs out and replace with RJ45 everywhere. As you will have some sockets as phone only and others as Ethernet, then get black inserts (or other colours can be purchased from certain places) to indicate which are phone only.

Yes you could install a central filter at the first socket, then use the 4th unused pair (tan) to tansport it to the desired site of the modem, use scotchloks to bridge each socket. If you were to have the modem mid span in the house then its easier to hop to one site either side with ethernet.

Maybe you could give us a drawing of the layout, if it would help.

Cyril



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  Reply # 157047 14-Aug-2008 20:29
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Hi, yes thats all making sense now, and confirms I can achieve what I want to do. If I get 3 way wall plates for every box, 3 x RJ45 connectors (1 with insert for BT), and colour code the ethernet connection to identify, then it will give me flexibility should I want to move my main pc (already done this gone from office to lounge after complaints from her indoors). I gather also by doing this, assuming the wiring is correctly done (may need a google search), that it will reduce issues from joining the cable. As long as its reliable, I'm not over bothered about the speed from the ethernet connection, as I will still have full speed on my main pc connected directly to the router.

I'll go PDL, I'm not impressed by some of the clipsal switches I have either, one of the 35amp switches completely snapped in half (2 years old) despite never being switched off, and others have cracks. The plastic face covers have also gone a muddy yellow colour.
The only downside will be the cost of 20+ RJ45 'keystones' !

My only remaining question is about hooking up the master line filter. I have good access to where the cat5 cable comes in from the street under the house. Can I cut this, attach a patch panel, then attach the first link of the daisy chain ? On the remaining inputs, I would like to wire up an additional cat5 or 6 cables and route these directly to the downstairs bedrooms.

The only downside will be the cost of 20+ RJ45 'keystones' !  Thanks again for the replies, any search I do always seems to have a Cyril reply & always bang on.

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  Reply # 157049 14-Aug-2008 20:49
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Hi, I am away till monday, but happy to talk early next week.

Cyril



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  Reply # 158104 19-Aug-2008 19:50
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Hi, Can someone please advise if I should cut the exisiting cat5 cable from the street, then attach a patch panel & master filter, & then branch this off to my exisiting cable & run new cable for the downstairs bedrooms. Or is this a bad idea & I should just run the master filter from the first bt socket & daisy chain this back under the house ? Apart from that I'm good to go.

Cheers

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  Reply # 158108 19-Aug-2008 20:05
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Ideally yes, that would be the more flexible way, however as I said before maybe a drawing to explain what you have would help.

Cyril



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  Reply # 158135 19-Aug-2008 20:59
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street----------------------kitchen------------lounge1-------lounge2
                                                                            -
                                                                            -
                                                                            -
                                                                   master bed---------------office


Sorry very noobish but I dont know how to import a word doc. The above is my current wiring set-up, proposed below


street-----p/panel&masterfilter----------kitchen-------lounge1-----lounge2
                    -       -      -                                                          -
                    -       -      -                                                          -
                    -       -      -                                                          -
                    -       -      -                                                 master bed---------------office
                 bed1   b2    b3



with 3 way pdl plate(683VH) at every socket with pdl keystones, BT inserts for phone



No idea what patch panel to get, I got quoted $104 for this - is this what I need
Patch Panel (16 port) CLIPSAL CA5E

PC & router currently at location lounge 2, although it used to be office & may well be again in the future
Thanks

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  Reply # 158151 19-Aug-2008 21:26
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Hi, so which rooms did you want ethernet in, and I assume the feeds from the new patchpanel/filter site are infact new feeds, and all others are old feeds with just the one daisy chained cat5 currently carrying phone.

For a home patch panel thats a bit more than most would spend, do you need 16 ports, sounds like 12 would be fine.

Cyril



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  Reply # 158156 19-Aug-2008 21:36
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ideally ethernet available to all of them, for guests, flatmates, children etc in the future. ok thanks i'll look at 12 port is any one make best or all a muchness. Yes you assumed right - there will be 3 new feeds from the panel, + 1 exisiting feed that goes to kitchen. I have easy access under the house to do all the new wiring, but not once it hits the kitchen, I'm stuck with the one daisy chain, atleast I got CAT5 though

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