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193 posts

Master Geek

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#262082 4-Jan-2020 15:31
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I'm absolutely mystified and I wonder if anyone has any suggestions.

 

I've had 8 Router Power Supplies die in the last 3 weeks.

 

I'm on Vodafone ADSL - a couple of months ago had to change phone number and have service reconnected from Unlimited ADSL Broadband LLU to Ultimate ADSL and Voice (WSA) as Vodafone were decommissioning LLU equipment. I didn't want VOIP due to monitored alarm and so Vodafone kept me on POTS.

 

Anyway I have been using a Vodafone Broadband Complete Modem/Router for years and this has worked well for me. I have a second TPLink Router connected via cable as a second Access Point.

 

The setup has served me fine for years. Recently when I lost connectivity I found that the power supply had blown.

 

I found a spare correctly rated power supply and the same thing happened a day or two later.

 

I changed the Vodafone Broadband Complete for a spare unit I had and once again a day or so later the Power Supply died.

 

I again replaced the adapter and connected to a different power outlet and used a Belkin Protected Power Board - again the Power Supply died.

 

I have now had 8 Power Supplies die despite different routers, different wall outlet etc and no other appliances or equipment have had any issue. The situation has occurred with genuine and replacement adapters.

 

Is there anything that could be happening at Network or Line side which could cause Router to draw excessive power and kill power adapter?

 

Neither router has itself died and work normally when connected to a new power adapter.

 

Any suggestions? Thanks.


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29119 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2385017 4-Jan-2020 15:43
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Zero suggestions.

 

Only scenario I've ever seen power supplies die is from old age or dirty power.

 

 


509 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2385020 4-Jan-2020 15:58
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Do you live near a substation? The only thing that'll cause this problem is voltage @ +230v.

This is an interesting problem, I'm watching this thread for sure!

Are the adapters 3-pin or 2-pin? If they're 3-pin, get the earth to your house checked. I doubt they are 3-pin though.

Do you live in a 100+ year old house where a murder was committed decades ago? Does cold wind blow @ random times with all doors & windows shut?

Does your ex-wife practice voodoo? Did she get a Kewpie of you made recently?




Megabyte - so geek it megahertz


 
 
 
 


509 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2385030 4-Jan-2020 16:19
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It's only the router connected to POTS that's blowing the adapters, yeah? So logically it's a problem caused by excess voltage coming through the POTS cable?

How's your adsl performance?

Do you use the copper line for landline phone? Is there disturbance on the dial tone? There'll be a dial tone anyway, even if you don't use landline apart from the alarm - plug a phone in, have a listen. Try setting your alarm off deliberately - is the alarm company ringing you already?

There are phone line surge protectors available - one of those may stop the power supplies from dying but not actually address the problem.




Megabyte - so geek it megahertz


2256 posts

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  #2385079 4-Jan-2020 16:42
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If you aren't blowing fuses or tripping breakers, and the power supplies don't smell cooked, then it's likely something on the low voltage side. It could simply be the power supply is overloaded, or it could be rouge voltages.
You could crack open a power supply to check how it has failed. If it looks like it blew up big time, it's probably a mains side failure.


Dumb stuff first, "correctly rated power supply". Reading the label on the router:

Power supply is the correct voltage? (is set correctly if it's multi voltage)
The current rating of the power supply is greater or equal to what the router specifies?
The plug polarity is correct?


If all these are correct, I'd try connecting a power supply to a router with no phone line or ethernet connected and let it sit. this will prove if the router itself is killing the power supplies.
I'd probably use a power supply with a much higher current rating, and leave it somewhere non flammable. With a larger power supply current rating, if the router is faulty, it might get really hot and start to melt.





Electrician.

 

Location: Dunedin

 

 




193 posts

Master Geek

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  #2385081 4-Jan-2020 17:00
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1024kb: Do you live near a substation? The only thing that'll cause this problem is voltage @ +230v.

This is an interesting problem, I'm watching this thread for sure!

Are the adapters 3-pin or 2-pin? If they're 3-pin, get the earth to your house checked. I doubt they are 3-pin though.

Do you live in a 100+ year old house where a murder was committed decades ago? Does cold wind blow @ random times with all doors & windows shut?

Does your ex-wife practice voodoo? Did she get a Kewpie of you made recently?

 

Thanks for the quick replies :)

 

Not near a substation.

 

3-pin

 

House is 1930's - no murder I'm aware of :)

 

Wife of 23 years (not ex) promises she hasn't made any voodoo dolls of me recently!

 

In answer to your other post:

 

I've just connected phone line through a Belkin protected power board which has telephone surge protector - thanks for suggestion.

 

Landline and alarm work fine.

 

ADSL performance good.

 

Stats

 

 

 

 

Mode:

 

ADSL2+ 

 

 

 

Line Coding:

 

Trellis On 

 

 

 

Status:

 

Connected 

 

 

 

Link Power State:

 

L0 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Downstream

 

Upstream

 

 

 

SNR Margin (dB):

 

6.6 

 

7.5 

 

 

 

Attenuation (dB):

 

22.5 

 

13.0 

 

 

 

Power (dBm):

 

18.8 

 

10.3 

 

 

 

Attainable Rate (Kbps):

 

20236 

 

1305 

 

 

 

Rate (Kbps):

 

17424 

 

1229 

 

 

 

MSGc (number of bytes in overhead channel message):

 

60 

 

16 

 

 

 

B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame):

 

178 

 

37 

 

 

 

M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame):

 

 

 

 

 

T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes):

 

 

 

 

 

R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame):

 

10 

 

 

 

 

S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length):

 

0.3281 

 

0.9806 

 

 

 

L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame):

 

4608 

 

310 

 

 

 

D (interleaver depth):

 

128 

 

 

 

 

Delay (msec):

 

10 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Super Frames:

 

22600 

 

22942 

 

 

 

Super Frame Errors:

 

 

 

 

 

RS Words:

 

4474966 

 

 

 

 

RS Correctable Errors:

 

408783 

 

 

 

 

RS Uncorrectable Errors:

 

 

N/A 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HEC Errors:

 

 

3569 

 

 

 

OCD Errors:

 

 

 

 

 

LCD Errors:

 

 

 

 

 

Total Cells:

 

15064176 

 

2831116517 

 

 

 

Data Cells:

 

36753 

 

507694381 

 

 

 

Bit Errors:

 

 

314716 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total ES:

 

 

3055 

 

 

 

Total SES:

 

 

 

 

 

Total UAS:

 

44 

 

503225 

 

 

 


959 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2385082 4-Jan-2020 17:10
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Possibly something connected to it that’s dragging the voltage down. You mention you have a spare router how confident are you to take it apart and measure the voltage at the DC input with nothing connected ,then with it connected normally.
If the voltage drops substantially ,disconnect everything one at a time till it comes back to normal .



193 posts

Master Geek

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  #2385094 4-Jan-2020 17:14
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andrewNZ: If you aren't blowing fuses or tripping breakers, and the power supplies don't smell cooked, then it's likely something on the low voltage side. It could simply be the power supply is overloaded, or it could be rouge voltages.
You could crack open a power supply to check how it has failed. If it looks like it blew up big time, it's probably a mains side failure.


Dumb stuff first, "correctly rated power supply". Reading the label on the router:

Power supply is the correct voltage? (is set correctly if it's multi voltage)
The current rating of the power supply is greater or equal to what the router specifies?
The plug polarity is correct?


If all these are correct, I'd try connecting a power supply to a router with no phone line or ethernet connected and let it sit. this will prove if the router itself is killing the power supplies.
I'd probably use a power supply with a much higher current rating, and leave it somewhere non flammable. With a larger power supply current rating, if the router is faulty, it might get really hot and start to melt.

 

 

 

Thanks, no RCDs blowing, Belkin protected power board doesn't trip and no issues with any other electrical equipment in house which one might expect if rouge voltages.

 

On a couple of occasions the power supplies have been a bit hot and slightly smelly when noticed shortly after blowing.

 

I opened a power supply yesterday and no obvious melting or obvious component destruction however don't work even when left for a while.

 

The replacement power supplies have been 12V 3A rated whereas router requires 12V 2A so I would have thought would be fine. Polarity is correct (+ve centre). Two Original manufacturer supplies have also blown.

 

The odd thing is I tried an identical Vodafone Complete modem/router and the same thing happened twice despite it being a completely separate unit so it seemed like it wasn't the router.

 

The only thing I can think of is something to do with the Phone connection but I would have thought that if there was a power surge down the phone line then it would blow the modem/router itself not just the adapter.

 

Thanks again for any suggestions - I've just ordered 10 power supplies on trademe yesterday as at this rate they would only last a month!

 

I might try a completely new router type but I don't know that would/should help as my current setup has been great for years (only recent change was changed by Vodafone from LLU to WSA around 2-3 months ago and I doubt that would be culprit but wondering).

 

 


 
 
 
 


544 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2385109 4-Jan-2020 18:32
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What brand of power supplies are you using?


3154 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2385276 5-Jan-2020 08:41
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If you really want to get to the bottom of it I would suggest you get a UPS that is manageable and hook it up to a computer to log it. Such as if you get an APC UPS, and then either hook it up via serial or get a NMC card that gets physically added into the UPS you get very useful logs of the data like this:

 

 

Or I just found a very cheap Managed PDU on Trademe that should be able to do the same thing, haven't tried this one but worth doing a Google before you purchase, and $40 for a Managed PDU that also switches ports is very cheap.

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/servers/server-components/listing-2469298077.htm

 

The PDU has network management and you can see the voltage input, I have a Raritan PDU I picked up off trademe that is plugged into the UPS (so doesn't give me true voltage fluctuations as that is cleaned by the UPS, but it gives you pretty pictures) 

 

 

IMHO a UPS is probably a better approach since it will clean the power so things don't blow up anymore. A PDU will just show you the problem but won't fix it. 





and


3370 posts

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  #2385287 5-Jan-2020 09:45
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How separated were the different wall outlets?

I have an ant problem where they invade the socket outlet and get fried. The smell attracts more ants and eventually the back of a double socket looks as if it is full of ant paste. By this time the switch will be unreliable and connected lights flicker. I don't know if a power supply could maintain enough output to keep the modem going while its input was affected or whether that could kill it.

509 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2415001 9-Feb-2020 13:09
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Hey this problem intrigued me, did you ever identify the cause? Or find a fix?




Megabyte - so geek it megahertz




193 posts

Master Geek

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  #2415114 9-Feb-2020 14:50
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I fed the phone line through a Belkin power board which had phone line protection and haven’t had a problem since - I’m still unsure why anything via phoneline should blow router power supply but not affect router itself!

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