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  #2434395 8-Mar-2020 08:47
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The RB4011 only has a 10g uplink and can then only feed two Gig switch groups via 2.5Gb links, so technically cannot in effect achieve what you might think.

Out of interest I have several RB4011s in a network at work with the routers sitting on a 10G L2 backbone that spans buildings spread over several kms, they go rather well.

Cyril

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  #2434439 8-Mar-2020 11:56
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hio77:
timbosan:

 

Why not just build your own? A PC with a dual 10GB NIC running Untangle or pfsense would be more than fast enough, and provide the features such as VLAN, IDS, IPS, etc.

Or if you want to save $$, just go for 2.5GB NIC's and Ethernet cables.

 



Just remember many of those platforms handle pppoe with a single thread.

 

It's all to do with the NIC + driver. At least for Intel NICs PPP packets cannot be distributed across CPU cores as they are for regular TCP packets (RSS/Receive Side Scaling); they all go to a single core. There is a setting in BSD called deferred processing which pushes much of the packet processing further down the chain after the packets are spread across cores in software but it only buys you so much. I can do 900 Mbit/s over PPP fine with pfSense and an older Intel NIC (newer ones struggle) but from what I've read anything more than that is not really feasible. Doesn't look like any of this will be resolved any time soon.


 
 
 
 


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  #2434443 8-Mar-2020 12:18
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I have been frustrated for many years by this. I remember looking at a high end motherboard back in 2012 (Ivy Bridge) that had 10gbe and thought it would start to trickle down to mainstream within a couple of years but it just has not. Even the latest $600+ motherboards are still coming through with a single gigabit LAN.

 

Just because the internet is kinda limited or under 1000mbps in most country's does not mean that LAN should be. It would make sense to have everything coming through with 10gbe out of the box by now. The stupidest stuff I see happening now is WiFi being advertised as faster than the available wired Network connection...

 

I am ready for it when it become affordable. Would be nice to be able to move/backup my data horde faster than 4 days...


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  #2434445 8-Mar-2020 12:21
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Tracer:

 

It's all to do with the NIC + driver. At least for Intel NICs PPP packets cannot be distributed across CPU cores as they are for regular TCP packets (RSS/Receive Side Scaling); they all go to a single core. There is a setting in BSD called deferred processing which pushes much of the packet processing further down the chain after the packets are spread across cores in software but it only buys you so much. I can do 900 Mbit/s over PPP fine with pfSense and an older Intel NIC (newer ones struggle) but from what I've read anything more than that is not really feasible. Doesn't look like any of this will be resolved any time soon.

 

 

Yup, which is exactly my callout..





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


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  #2434558 8-Mar-2020 15:51
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cyril7: The RB4011 only has a 10g uplink and can then only feed two Gig switch groups via 2.5Gb links, so technically cannot in effect achieve what you might think.

Out of interest I have several RB4011s in a network at work with the routers sitting on a 10G L2 backbone that spans buildings spread over several kms, they go rather well.

Cyril


The benefits for many users will not be end devices supporting 10Gbps though, but total backhaul supporting greater than 1Gbps or 500Mbps for upload.

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  #2434573 8-Mar-2020 16:16
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Yep 100% agree Steve, as I recall when the original trial started I commented that I saw no use in 10G for residential, and questioned if there would be XGPON ONTs with just 1G interfaces as that would make more sense, with XGPON just reducing the contention in the local loop for users on 950/450 plans. So as it transpires we are going to see 2G and 4G plans (with 8G as a future option), and with an ONT with 3 1G ports (plus a 10G), so in effect that contention mitigation can be now extended to a limited number of desktops.

 

And so in that case an RB4011 would be a great option, in a small branch office environment with 10 GigE ports you dont even need to require an extra switch but give 1G local loop uncontended to the desktop.

 

Cyril


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  #2434636 8-Mar-2020 19:07
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cyril7:

 

[snip]with XGPON just reducing the contention in the local loop for users on 950/450 plans. [snip]

 

 

What contention?

 

N

 

 





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  #2434724 8-Mar-2020 21:12
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Hi, yes Chorus have an uncontended network, so I guess all fluff, however, as I understand it Chorus are having to delay 8Gb/s product while they upgrade the backhaul, so clearly contention is expected.....No?.

 

Cyril


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  #2434730 8-Mar-2020 21:28
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cyril7:

 

Hi, yes Chorus have an uncontended network, so I guess all fluff, however, as I understand it Chorus are having to delay 8Gb/s product while they upgrade the backhaul, so clearly contention is expected.....No?.

 

Cyril

 

 

It's more complicated than that but basically, still no. (That is an inference from looking at publicly available data and experience in many years of observing BB use profiles - NOT any sort of comment from an official source)

 

Chorus make the PON port utilisation stats publicly available here - https://sp.chorus.co.nz/report/pon-utilisation - so before anyone starts talking about contention on the LFC networks (and in this case, Chorus' PON segments specifically), I encourage them to have a look at the data and see what the current levels are. I have.

 

Cheers - N

 

 





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  #2434746 8-Mar-2020 21:57
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Talkiet:

 

cyril7:

 

Hi, yes Chorus have an uncontended network, so I guess all fluff, however, as I understand it Chorus are having to delay 8Gb/s product while they upgrade the backhaul, so clearly contention is expected.....No?.

 

Cyril

 

 

It's more complicated than that but basically, still no. (That is an inference from looking at publicly available data and experience in many years of observing BB use profiles - NOT any sort of comment from an official source)

 

Chorus make the PON port utilisation stats publicly available here - https://sp.chorus.co.nz/report/pon-utilisation - so before anyone starts talking about contention on the LFC networks (and in this case, Chorus' PON segments specifically), I encourage them to have a look at the data and see what the current levels are. I have.

 

Cheers - N

 

 

 

 

Except at 22GB it's a pretty hefty thing to review ;)





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  #2434769 8-Mar-2020 23:52
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hio77:

 

Except at 22GB it's a pretty hefty thing to review ;)

 

 

Well if you had hyperfiber........





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  #2434771 9-Mar-2020 00:20
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hio77:

 

Except at 22GB it's a pretty hefty thing to review ;)

 

 

LOL yes... I had to setup a database, write scripts to massage and import the data and even then a hex core Xeon with 32G of RAM on an SSD chugged when running reports on it.

 

Cheers - N

 

 





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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  #2434813 9-Mar-2020 09:00
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Hi Neil, without taking a dive into the stats of that database I will concede to you that all is uncontended, as it should be and as Chorus have said they would honour.

 

However, moving on a little into the future, assuming "a" GPON OLT port happens to have a full compliment of biz level ONTs attached (16 for residiential I understand not sure about biz) and all those biz customers have ordered high CIR 950/450 plans. Now I am sure there is some process to manage if even by hand the distribution of plan/CIR types across the OLT ports in any one instance, but clearly if those biz customers start to push things it could go pear shaped.

 

That said as I recall biz CIRs top out at 100Mb/s anyway (would need to recheck that) so a GPON with 16x 950/450 could support it without breaking the bank, but I guess what I was orginailly saying is with XGPON and only providing GigE client ports, you can now provide even high CIR and avoid contention right to the desktop.

 

Cyril  


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  #2434841 9-Mar-2020 09:50
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Canuckabroad:

 

Before you answer - while Chorus are completing a trial of 10Gigabit Internet I know that while the majority of us are at 1Gig or slower internet speed....it's not uncommon for us to run a NAS for secure storage of our files, and large 4K or 8K video grow to a pretty large size.  Suffice to say some people move a lot of data around their local networks, independent of the speed things arrive from the Internet.

 

 

 

It seems the latest broadband routers are offering us mesh, integrating with smart devices, and other cool new offerings - but I can't find any which offer anything faster than Gigabit ports (and none offer port aggregation) for our wired networks....which has been available for about 20 years now.

 

 

 

Is it pretty much a given that if you want to run 2.5/5/10 Gigabit local networks you are going to have to go with a separate switch for your network and use your broadband router just for Wifi and to connect to your internet?  I know the cost of 10Gig hasn't come down much and most people are probably concerned about maximising their beam-formed wi-fi speeds and range for wireless devices - I'm just a little surprised that some of the most-expensive gaming routers haven't made the jump past gigabit yet....as it is convenient to just have the one device.

 

 

 

 

given your statement that you're not really after 10G internet speeds, and more keen on local data throughput, you have sort of answered your question. if you should get such a 10G router without an in-built hardware switch, it's really not going to serve 10Gbps locally.

 

gaming routers are, for the most part, gaming whoever buys them. i wouldn't call them bad, for the average joe, but they're nowhere near what they say they can do. and for the same amount of money, in some cases even less, you can get a much better system.

 

so, for your use case, perhaps a mikrotik solution of an rb4011 for routing (should you go hyperfibre) + crs305 for switching local traffic (SFP+/DACs extra), and then your wireless APs would do the trick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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