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nic.wise

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#289530 11-Sep-2021 10:47
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Hi. Needing some advice :)

 

My setup:

 

I have a UBNT Dreammachine, and a FlexAP, with a 8 and 5 port GB hubs (also UBNT) connecting them all up. Got another FlexAP on order to see if that'll help. Both/all are setup with 2.4ghz (HT20) and 5ghz (VHT80). FlexAP is on channels 11/36 and the UDM is on 6/42

 

Location-wise, the DM is in the lounge (large open room, it's up fairly high, about head level). Bedroom is about 10m away thru 3 to 4 walls, one of which also has our incoming power and fuse board, so I'd assume more interference cos copper and electrons. All walls are gib/wood/batts, no brick, bad mid-90s construction. Think a large square (lounge), and a smaller rectangle (bedroom+hall), in an L shape. We are in a sparsely populated area, I can see 1 or maybe 2 other WIFI access points from here, depending where on the property I am. So vey low noise. No microwave either :)

 

The FlexAP is in the bedroom right now (about 2m from the bed). Normally it's in the studio, which is a free-standing building about 30m away, thru some VERY thin trees. The studio is wired to the house with ethernet (has servers/nas etc).

 

Device-wise, there are usually 2 Mac laptops (current editions, or close to it), 2 iPads (getting older - 5th/6th gen?) and 2 iPhone 12's. On top of that, a smattering of IOT devices - shelly relays, one single SONOF switch, a few wemo and tplink switches. And a printer.

 

The user gear is on one SSID, the IOT stuff is on it's own, tho they are otherwise setup the same. One big network segment.

 

Internet is GB Fibre from Voyager. I can speedtest (command line, ethernet, from a linux box) at close on full rate. We had 100/100 from BigPipe until the start of this month.

 

The problem:

 

While I can speedtest (to voyager's server - speedtest -s 18822) from a wired machine at full rate (or as close as I care about - 850-900/400-450), I can't get over 350/350 over wifi, from any device. The Macs do best at about that, but phone/ipad top out at about 30/20 in the bedroom when the FlexAP is in the studio, and around 130/130 when it's around 2m away in the same room, and the AP says it's connected at 800Mbps

 

The ping times are all over the place, too. I ran 3 at the same time for a bit: one from the mac -> 8.8.8.8, one from the mac -> UDM and one from the linux box -> 8.8.8.8.

 

The linux box->8.8.8.8 was constant at 25ms. The mac->8.8.8.8 and the Mac->udm were pretty constant (around 26ms, and 2ms to the UDM) but from time to time I'd get it jump to 200-300ms for 2-3 pings, then back down. I was around 3m from the AP at that point, thru clear air. That happened maybe every 30-45 seconds. eg:

 

 

64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=1.237 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=14 ttl=64 time=1.141 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=15 ttl=64 time=1.410 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=16 ttl=64 time=1.498 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=17 ttl=64 time=1.673 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=18 ttl=64 time=36.281 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=19 ttl=64 time=82.860 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=20 ttl=64 time=130.165 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=21 ttl=64 time=174.821 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=22 ttl=64 time=220.768 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=23 ttl=64 time=1.421 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=24 ttl=64 time=1.527 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=25 ttl=64 time=1.603 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=26 ttl=64 time=2.631 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=27 ttl=64 time=1.177 ms

 

 

 

speedtest -s 18822

 

   Speedtest by Ookla

 

     Server: Voyager Internet - Auckland (id = 18822)
        ISP: Voyager Internet
    Latency:     3.47 ms   (0.67 ms jitter)
   Download:   342.23 Mbps (data used: 300.4 MB)
     Upload:   482.78 Mbps (data used: 597.2 MB)
Packet Loss:     0.0%
 Result URL: https://www.speedtest.net/result/c/0bbcd246-3224-4367-859b-00ceb42bdf80

 

 

 

 

Most of this became noticeable when we moved to voyager, tho I dont think they are anything to do with it. I think it was more that I had >100Mbps available, and I was checking it more.

 

The Mac I'm on (current gen 16") says it's on at 1300Mbps tx rate, 80Mhz 5Ghz channel. But still it can't get more than 350, which is rather close to the max limit for the UDM/FlexAP when its on 2.4g. Unlikely related, but weird none the less.

 

I know I'm not going to be able to push 1.3Gbps anywhere, ever. But 350 seams a bit low, and 130 from a device which is right next to the AP seams.... broken. Esp when nothing else is doing much except background usage.

 

 

 

Anyone got any ideas? Outside of "you should have got other WIFI gear".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


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kyhwana2
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  #2776322 11-Sep-2021 11:07
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Ignore the "connected at" rates, they don't really mean anything.

 

350/350mbit on wifi is pretty good. Have you checked what other networks are around you and what channels they're on? Make sure your 5ghz networks aren't on (or overlapping) channels that your neighbours are using..

 

Also what wifi standard are all your devices using? How many MIMO antennas?

 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/11/802-eleventy-which-802-11ax-and-802-11ay-explained/


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nic.wise

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  #2776348 11-Sep-2021 12:38
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kyhwana2:

 

Ignore the "connected at" rates, they don't really mean anything.

 

350/350mbit on wifi is pretty good. Have you checked what other networks are around you and what channels they're on? Make sure your 5ghz networks aren't on (or overlapping) channels that your neighbours are using..

 

Also what wifi standard are all your devices using? How many MIMO antennas?

 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/11/802-eleventy-which-802-11ax-and-802-11ay-explained/

 

 

I have almost no networks around me - I can see one from my laptop here. There might be 2 (distant) ones around the studio. They are mostly AirBNB's so no one is home, and they will be on the defaults...

 

Everything on 2.4g is using ng, and everything on 5ghz is using ac.

 

The FlexHD is a 4x4 MIMO (https://store.ui.com/products/unifi-flexhd), and the UDM is also 4x4 (https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-unifi-os-consoles/products/unifi-dream-machine)

 

I'd be ok with 350, its when things drop to 15 or so, or even 150, it bugs me

 

 

 

When I bought this, I was replacing 3x Airport Extreme, one of which was in the bedroom (the other 2 where largely where the UDM and FlexHD are now). I figured I might have to get another one, so I guess I was right - I just got 6 months of "free" use....





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


nic.wise

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  #2776353 11-Sep-2021 12:48
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kyhwana2:

 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/11/802-eleventy-which-802-11ax-and-802-11ay-explained/

 

 

Thanks for that link - that explains a lot of it in the first table. AC only goes to 433Mbps, which is about what I'm seeing. And I have no gear which does ax (until Apple releases the 14" MBP with an M1X which does AX - well, the current M1 does, so I doubt they'd drop back). Might be worth getting a new AP at that point, as my wife pushes a lot of big RAW files around in Lightroom, so having something which can do AX would be good for her. Tho thats only 500 or so, and then the NAS disk speed becomes the bottleneck anyway..... pity our poor credit card.

 

Might be a ethernet dongle and 5m of cable in our future :) Or maybe running a few more network jacks in this room.





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz




PJ48
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  #2776400 11-Sep-2021 15:00
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Ac goes to 433 for a single antenna at 80 Mhz, but the MacBook has at least 2 antenna, and some models have 3 so you should be able to achieve up around 500 mbps at close range. Have you tried setting the UDM to channel 149, and leave the Flex HD at 36, so there is no overlapping of 80 Mhz channels?  If the UDM is set to 42 then it is effectively broadcasting on the same 80 Mhz spectrum as the Flex on 36. Maybe you are getting interference?


cyril7
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  #2776412 11-Sep-2021 15:48
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Hi, the speeds you are seeing are totally normal for the gear you have. If you wife is pushing large graphic files around, then organise a wired connection, while she is moving large files the wireless spectrum which is a shared resource is being hogged by her usage, so get a dedicated wired link and leave the wifi for doing the every day stuff.

 

I can already hear you say, but I cannot do wired for this and that and it will require a cable to be run and thats not convienient, yet you were happy to shell out dosh on more wireless gear that probably wont make a diff. Spend the money on a wired connection and take advantage of it.

 

Cyril 

 

Edit, if you want to use 80MHz then you need to use channels 42 and 58, if the AP wont let you select those channels then it should let you select one adjacent and it will occupy the 42 and 58 allocations, these are the correct channels to use for 80MHz.


nic.wise

248 posts

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  #2776418 11-Sep-2021 16:06
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cyril7:

 

Hi, the speeds you are seeing are totally normal for the gear you have. If you wife is pushing large graphic files around, then organise a wired connection, while she is moving large files the wireless spectrum which is a shared resource is being hogged by her usage, so get a dedicated wired link and leave the wifi for doing the every day stuff.

 

I can already hear you say, but I cannot do wired for this and that and it will require a cable to be run and thats not convienient, yet you were happy to shell out dosh on more wireless gear that probably wont make a diff. Spend the money on a wired connection and take advantage of it.

 

Cyril 

 

Edit, if you want to use 80MHz then you need to use channels 42 and 58, if the AP wont let you select those channels then it should let you select one adjacent and it will occupy the 42 and 58 allocations, these are the correct channels to use for 80MHz.

 

 

 

 

yeah, it shouldn't be a problem to get 5m+ of the very very thin ethernet - easy to tidy away under the tv cabinet for when it's not needed. Gotta wait for L3/L2 tho, not sure it's an essential item (well, the 0.2m ones were not)





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


nic.wise

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  #2776420 11-Sep-2021 16:06
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PJ48:

 

Ac goes to 433 for a single antenna at 80 Mhz, but the MacBook has at least 2 antenna, and some models have 3 so you should be able to achieve up around 500 mbps at close range. Have you tried setting the UDM to channel 149, and leave the Flex HD at 36, so there is no overlapping of 80 Mhz channels?  If the UDM is set to 42 then it is effectively broadcasting on the same 80 Mhz spectrum as the Flex on 36. Maybe you are getting interference?

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Will give that a go.





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz




nic.wise

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  #2780539 19-Sep-2021 09:11
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Solution:

 

 

 

 

 

 

will be properly mounted on the wall today with a 20cm cable once pb will ship them. 





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


nic.wise

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  #2781802 21-Sep-2021 18:05
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… and all the weird ping times and stability stuff just disappeared with that other AP….





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


sbiddle
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  #2781987 22-Sep-2021 07:38
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One aspect of WiFi that many people don't understand is the PHY vs real world rates and how PHY rate is affected by the number of chains a client device has.

 

Real world throughput is around 50 - 60% of PHY connect rates. If you're running an 80 MHz channel with 2x2 AP you can get a max PHY rate of 866.7 - so even if you have a 3x3 client you can't get a PHY rate of any more than 866.7. If you have a 3x3 AP and 3x3 client you'll get a PHY rate of 1300 which will deliver real world of around 650Mbps or so.

 

If you have a 4x4 AP max PHY rate is limited by the client.

 

The next limitation is channel size - because when you bond channels from the standard 20MHz to 40MHz, 80MHz (or even 160MHz), the power levels and coverage will be reduced due to simple physics. If you want the best possible 5GHz coverage you would only ever configure an AP to 20MHz channels to try and get as close to the 2.4GHz coverage as possible. Running 40MHz channels will deliver roughly 1/2 the effective coverage compared to 20MHz in a typical indoor environment with walls. Unless you have an AP in the same room as a client radio I never recommend using 80MHz channels.

 

Credits to WirelessLAN Professionals


nic.wise

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  #2782025 22-Sep-2021 09:28
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Thanks Steve - I might drop them down to 40Mhz channels, tho now, I'm in the same room for 5Ghz stuff (3 rooms, 3 APs), and all the IOT stuff which is outside is all on 2.4 anyway. Might limit the IOT SSID to just do 2.4.... its self-limited at the moment, according to the console





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


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