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  Reply # 375223 1-Sep-2010 10:45
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kman82: Could the external hd via usb connection on the home server be a problem even shifting files locally on the home server pc can be laggy. I think I need to install usb 2.0 drivers


Ah ha!

You didn't mention that ;-)  That will be the cause of your speed issues, USB is very slow compared to internal drives.

I strongly recommend you don't use USB drives on WHS except for backups.  All content (shared files etc) should be on internal drives.

Is there space in the case to put another drive?  It is possible to take the drive out of the USB case and just add it, but you may have to back it up first otherwise you will loose the data on it.

If you need more help just ask, WHS is a great product!

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  Reply # 375224 1-Sep-2010 10:47
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timbosan:
kman82: Ok great am going to try a wired solution tonight will let you know how it goes I didn't think that wireless would be THAT bad considering my wireless download speeds sometimes hit 1.2mbits.
Should I have a high speed Ethernet port on my home server? Or do the gigabit ports on the router do all the work?


Don't forget that 1.2Mbps is only 0.15MB/s, which is not a lot.  Look at http://www.mediaroad.com/products/speedcheck/free_tools/unit_convert/proc.php to do the conversion.

The problem with wireless (vs. wired) is that it is shared bandwidth and very variable - distances, walls, other devices can cause slowdowns.  A cable is a dedicated route (ignoring any discussions about internal router bandwidth) that pretty much guarantees a speed between two devices.

And if you have gigabit Ethernet ports on both the server and the router then that can only help (but it will help more if the clients also have gigabit Ethernet).



Easier than that to do the conversion:
1.2 / 8 = 0.15MB/s or 150KB/s




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  Reply # 375227 1-Sep-2010 10:51
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kman82: But I thought my router was a switch also seeing they are all gigabit ports. Mk ill have to purchase a switch then any in mind?


Yes, it is a switch, but what 'SepticSceptic' is saying is that all internal network traffic should only go through a dedicated switch, something like this:

workstation -> switch -> Home Server

If you need to access the internet it would be

workstation -> switch -> router

So the switch becomes the centre of the LAN.

Dedicated switches are usually faster and have more ports (I have a 16 port 3com gigabit switch) and often have more internal bandwidth available (important when using more than one port at a time).

The switch will then control which traffic needs to go to the router.  It also means you have some future proofing as you can change/update your router without loosing your switch.

If you have a large-ish home network you could also look at a dedicated wireless access point (WAP) and hook this up to the switch too, instead of using the wireless functionality of the router.  I have a setup like this and it is much easier to upgrade and change, plus my WAP is int he center of the house, and cabled through to the switch, which is in a cupboard with the server and router.



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  Reply # 375248 1-Sep-2010 11:43
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Also I am only using one laptop on the network at the moment. Laptop...router...home server



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  Reply # 375252 1-Sep-2010 11:53
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Ok I can get a hold of a cisco catalyst 2960 wat u think

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  Reply # 375265 1-Sep-2010 12:43
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kman82: Ok I can get a hold of a cisco catalyst 2960 wat u think


Way overkill, but will do the job ! You still have a bottle neck with the USB on the WHS, especially f you suspect that you are running USB 1.1, whcih seriously sucks toxic waste for data transfer. it's only 12mbps or 12 Mbps  - either way, it's like sucking treacle thru an eye of a needle. Far slower than any standard 100mpbs lan network, let alone a gig network.




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  Reply # 375267 1-Sep-2010 12:49
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SepticSceptic:
kman82: Ok I can get a hold of a cisco catalyst 2960 wat u think


Way overkill, but will do the job ! You still have a bottle neck with the USB on the WHS, especially f you suspect that you are running USB 1.1, whcih seriously sucks toxic waste for data transfer. it's only 12mbps or 12 Mbps  - either way, it's like sucking treacle thru an eye of a needle. Far slower than any standard 100mpbs lan network, let alone a gig network.


LOL, good analogy there!

And yeah, with USB1.1 you could get away with a 10Mbps LAN!

Seriously though, that switch would be fantastic at home, just one thing to note - its rack mounted, and I have a 1U rack mounted switch, and the noise from the fans can be an issue in a home enivornment, so make sure it can go somewhere where the noise wont be an issue.

But 24+ ports of Gigabit with POE, wow!

Perhaps you could post more info about what you use as a server.  Is it a standard ATX tower PC?  Or something else?  It would help in determining if you could move the drive to be internal.  Or else (easier option), can you buy an new internal drive?

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  Reply # 375273 1-Sep-2010 12:58
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I would very much doubt the switch on your router is a limitation and should perform at full FastEthernet (100Mb/s) speed. If you should get an extra external switch any $28 5port or $35 8port will also give you full 100Mb/s throughput.

Using a USB connection to the hard disk is a serious ovdersight if you now want to complain about speed, even though it may be 480Mb/s if it were USB2.0 the OS's USB stack is unlikely to throughput that, even for most modest machines a standard SATA drive will rarely give you more than 300Mb/s out to a GigE port, however should be able to keep a FastEthernet port fully occupied.

Cyril



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  Reply # 375283 1-Sep-2010 13:13
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timbosan:
SepticSceptic:
kman82: Ok I can get a hold of a cisco catalyst 2960 wat u think


Way overkill, but will do the job ! You still have a bottle neck with the USB on the WHS, especially f you suspect that you are running USB 1.1, whcih seriously sucks toxic waste for data transfer. it's only 12mbps or 12 Mbps? - either way, it's?like sucking treacle thru an eye of a needle. Far slower than any standard 100mpbs lan network, let alone a gig network.


LOL, good analogy there!

And yeah, with USB1.1 you could get away with a 10Mbps LAN!

Seriously though, that switch would be fantastic at home, just one thing to note - its rack mounted, and I have a 1U rack mounted switch, and the noise from the fans can be an issue in a home enivornment, so make sure it can go somewhere where the noise wont be an issue.

But 24+ ports of Gigabit with POE, wow!

Perhaps you could post more info about what you use as a server.? Is it a standard ATX tower PC?? Or something else?? It would help in determining if you could move the drive to be internal.? Or else (easier option), can you buy an new internal drive?
I

Buying a new internal drive is a possabilty. it is a tower pc. and it is just an external seagate hdd via usb. But am going to buy the gig card for the server tnite
what details exactly u wanna know 3 it took 3hrs to transfer 100 gig is that fairly standard

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  Reply # 375350 1-Sep-2010 15:51
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kman82: what details exactly u wanna know 3 it took 3hrs to transfer 100 gig is that fairly standard


My first mental calculation worked it out at less than a megabyte a second.

could be wrong ...

3hrs for 100gig
1hour for 30gig

3600 seconds for 30 gig

30/3600 = 0.0083 gig per second.

*10 to get an expected speed for a 100mbs lan

0.0083 * 100 = 0.083 in 100's of MB/s

?? Hmm,,,, not even a blip in the task manager network utilisation

* 100 to get a MB/s

= 8.3 MB/s.

OK, so I dropped a decimal place on my first mental run thru :-)

*15 to get a Mb/s

=124 Mb/s

I dunno - all too hard - lot easier just to open task manger and check network utilisation:-)

Expect 50-80% utilisation if transferring files, and no other activity on WHS or destination devices.









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  Reply # 375354 1-Sep-2010 16:03
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hmm ok so in short my router aint good enough to handle transfers need a switch. I need to get rid of my external .1tb hd i need sn internal. Need gigabit connections on everything.

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  Reply # 375358 1-Sep-2010 16:15
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At the very least, get that USB HDD off the USB and into the WHS on a dedicated SATA bus - ahh, I am assuming that you have spare SATA connections on your mobo ?

You may not depending on the age of the mobo. Otherwise you are up for another $50 odd for a PCI SATA controller.

Since you already have your mitts on a gig switch ( and a damn good one at that ), grab a PCI gigabit NIC card for WHS - that's another $30-ish. ( for a cheapie - make sure you get WOL - Wake on Lan. This is for waking up WHS for backups, and double necessary for a headless setup)

If your switch is only a loaner, an 8-port 1gig switch is around $50-odd as well.

Final Question - do you know how to access Task Manager to view Network utilisation ? This will be an easy benchmark to see if the before and after upgrades help, and if you replace your 3Com switch with a cheapie - THAT will be interesting...

One hint - network traffic speed is NOT logged until you access the Network tab in Task Manager. (Win XP - and maybe WHS - never checked on WHS, always on the clients.)




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  Reply # 375366 1-Sep-2010 16:35
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So I can put the external onto a SATA bus controller?yer I know how to access task manager

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  Reply # 375370 1-Sep-2010 16:51
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I'd say, reservedly, yes. Almost ALL recent USB 1tb drives are SATA - iI am assuming that it's a 1tb drive ? Or that it is even SATA ?

Whatever connections the USB HDD has internally, it should be able to match up what you have in the PC case.

I say reservedly because I don't think you have to much know-how in the hardware side of things, judging from a few of your comments and a minor slip up could see your data on the USB's HDD go into never-never land.

I don't doubt your compentancy and willingness to give it a go, but please make sure your data on the USB HDD is backed up somewhere else. Nothing like that cold sweaty feeling when you KNOW that the data is gone forever....

Also check your WHS does have the appropriate SATA connections first, and also the SATA drive power connections - they are different from the older style HDD connections. You can get power adapters, as well as SATA / PATA converters.

SATA / PATA converters allow you to use SATA HDD's in the PATA / IDE systems, and vice versa, though I suspect that the conversion process will add some bandwidth overhead.







My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government




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  Reply # 375373 1-Sep-2010 17:07
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Ah no worries yeah ill be right...yer its a separate external 1tb. Ok ill get a pci SATA controller and power converter. Im guessing the power cable will just break out from the old Y power cable to suit SATA

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