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  Reply # 378103 9-Sep-2010 08:19
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Ragnor: Bonjour is just Apple-speak for NAT-PMP, look for an option in your Belkin related to that. Often UPNP and NAT-PMP come disabled by default in many routers.

Sometimes enabling UPNP in some routers will actually enable UPNP and NAT-PMP (aka Bonjour).


Thanks for the info. I can't find any mention of NAT-PMP, and UPNP is already enabled. 

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  Reply # 378241 9-Sep-2010 14:23
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Hmm lame.

Well the best solution (imo) requires a bit of tech savvy but I would go standalone basic adsl modem that does pppoa half bridge aka ip extension then hook that up to router (wireless and network switch) flashed with custom third party firmware like Tomato or DD-WRT.

I've been using a Linksys AM300 and Linksys WRT54GL (running Tomato firmware) at home for years but if I was buying now I'd want to get wireless N and gigabit networking so I'd look at these:

Basic ADSL modems that do half bridging

TP Link TD8840
http://www.tp-link.com/products/productDetails.asp?pmodel=TD-8840

Netcomm / Dynalink RTA1320E
http://www.dynalink.co.nz/products/adsl/rta1320e

Netcomm / Dynalink NB6
http://www.dynalink.co.nz/products/adsl/nb6


Router

Asus RT N-16
http://www.asus.co.nz/product.aspx?P_ID=WAa6AQFncrceRBEo

Linksys WRT320N
http://www.linksysbycisco.com/EU/en/products/WRT320N


Guide & Firmware

Half bridging guide (bit old now)
http://www.ben.geek.nz/2006/11/adsl-routing-solution-in-detail/

Tomato firmware that works on the Asus RT N-16
http://tomatousb.org/
http://tomatousb.org/doc:build-types






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  Reply # 378242 9-Sep-2010 14:33
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Ragnor: Hmm lame.

Well the best solution (imo) requires a bit of tech savvy but I would go standalone basic adsl modem that does pppoa half bridge aka ip extension then hook that up to router (wireless and network switch) flashed with custom third party firmware like Tomato or DD-WRT.


Thanks for the detailed advice Ragnor, but TBTH life is far too short for that much faffing about. It should be possible to get a device that "just works" without the need to roll up the sleeves quite so much. The Belkin Share would've fit the bill nicely... if only it was more Mac friendly.

I'm currently investigating the Linksys WAG320N, as recommended by Zippity. But I'm a little concerned about the hoops I had to jump through in order to get presales support from them, so I could find out whether their tech does support OSX nicely (they claim it does).

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  Reply # 378244 9-Sep-2010 14:36
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Tried downloading the manual/user guide for the model, then just search the pdf for the words: upnp and nat pmp (or nat-pmp)?



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  Reply # 378246 9-Sep-2010 14:40
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Ragnor: Tried downloading the manual/user guide for the model, then just search the pdf for the words: upnp and nat pmp (or nat-pmp)?


Yep, I tried that before returning it this morning. Currently running on my old DSL-G604T while I research its replacement. 

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  Reply # 378249 9-Sep-2010 14:46
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Hmm if this is accurate you may have only the choice between and airport and running Tomato or DD-WRT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAT_Port_Mapping_Protocol#Routers_supporting_NAT-PMP



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  Reply # 378251 9-Sep-2010 14:55
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Ragnor: Hmm if this is accurate you may have only the choice between and airport and running Tomato or DD-WRT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAT_Port_Mapping_Protocol#Routers_supporting_NAT-PMP


Well, my DSL-G604T supports it, and I didn't see that listed there.

The Linksys support rep I talked to earlier also assures me that the WAG320N should too. All I need to find now is a retailer that has a sensible return policy, so that I don't have to pay a 15% restocking fee (and freight back to them) if I purchase it and this claim turns out to be false. 

A large brick and mortar retailer would be better in this regard, but the only one I've found so far that stocks it is Harvey Norman, and their website states they want $329 for it. It can be purchased for as little as $227 elsewhere. 

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  Reply # 378265 9-Sep-2010 15:44
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I think some of the above posts might create a little confusion. Bonjour and NAT-PMP are not quite the same thing.

My basic understanding is that bonjour is a protocol which assigns names to devices allowing them to discover other bonjour devices on a local network (rather than having to manually enter IP addresses).

I think NAT-PMP is basically Apple's version of UPnP, which allows software or devices behind a NAT router to specify port forwards required by that software/device.

I don't think routers need to have bonjour support specifically included, although like in your case it does seem possible for the router's firmware to break support for bonjour. Who knows which manufacturers actually test for bonjour support...I had a problem with a D-Link DIR-300 where a firmware update broke bonjour support between the wired and wireless networks in the device, and when I emailed support I had a reply similar to yours along the lines of "we don't know what you are talking about".

Conversely devices do need to have support for NAT-PMP coded in, and as per the link above, not many devices actually seem to. In my experience, this isn't really a big deal. We run an almost all Apple network here, and I've never needed it.  



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  Reply # 378272 9-Sep-2010 15:53
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froob:
Conversely devices do need to have support for NAT-PMP coded in, and as per the link above, not many devices actually seem to. In my experience, this isn't really a big deal. We run an almost all Apple network here, and I've never needed it.  


Thanks for the detailed reply, froob. Being a fellow Mac owner, do you have any hardware recommendations in the $250 ballpark that you know to work well with them. I have a strong preference for a combined modem/router if possible.  

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  Reply # 378297 9-Sep-2010 16:54
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Sorry I don't really have much more to add than is in my posts above. I actually have the same setup as Ragnor- a Linksys AM300 as an ADSL modem in half-bridge mode, behind a WRT54GL as a wireless router. I also have the older wireless G versions of the Airport Express and and Airport Extreme acting as wireless access points.

Quite a few of the routers I've used over the years have had one problem or the other. Mainly they've either had disconnection problems with their wireless while using Apple laptops, problems with bonjour like you're having, or the UPnP doesn't work properly.

The WRT54GL with Tomato on the other hand is absolutely rock solid, and I couldn't recommend it more strongly. It's wireless works great with Apple laptops and iPhones, seems to work with bonjour, and it's UPnP works really well (the UPnP will be important for using your PS3 online). The Tomato Firmware itself is also really easy to install on this router. The only real downside is that it only has 100Mbit ethernet and wireless G, so it's not really an upgrade from what you have already.  

Sorry I can't really recommend any specific wireless N or gigabit routers as I've never owned one, but based on my experience one that supports Tomato Firmware would be a good bet. I mentioned the Netgear WNR3500L earlier because I've heard it's standard firmware is pretty good, and if it turns out that it's not, you can install Tomato Firmware as an alternative (although the firmware's a bit harder to install on this router than it is on the WRT54GL). It's not an all-in-one router + modem though.

If you are just after wireless N and not gigabit ethernet, another option might be to buy an Apple Airport Express and connect it to your existing setup as a wireless access point (Apple calls it "bridge mode"). My older version of the Airport Express is either rock solid, or total rubbish depending on the firmware version you use, but I have no experience with the N one.

I'd be interested to know if you find a good router. Good luck!





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  Reply # 378300 9-Sep-2010 17:02
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froob: I mentioned the Netgear WNR3500L earlier because I've heard it's standard firmware is pretty good, and if it turns out that it's not, you can install Tomato Firmware as an alternative (although the firmware's a bit harder to install on this router than it is on the WRT54GL). It's not an all-in-one router + modem though


Hmm... I wonder if that would make the Netgear DGN3500 modem/router a potential candidate. Is Tomato only applicable to routers (guessing it is), or can it be used with modem/routers as well? 

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  Reply # 378316 9-Sep-2010 17:27
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dclegg: Is Tomato only applicable to routers (guessing it is), or can it be used with modem/routers as well? 


I'm pretty sure that Tomato only works with wireless routers.

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  Reply # 378332 9-Sep-2010 18:16
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froob:
Sorry I can't really recommend any specific wireless N or gigabit routers as I've never owned one


The ASUS RT-N16 is pretty much a WRT54G with wireless N and gigabit, if you're gonna go the Tomato route then that what I would recommend.

It would be nice if these things worked out of the box but networking just isn't that easy. Tomato + a modem in half-bridge is a good investment, both in terms of money and time spent. The upgrade to Tomato will take less than 5 minutes then the setup is no harder or easier than your average off the shelf modem, plus you get the benefits of all the extra features.

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  Reply # 378429 10-Sep-2010 01:07
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Yeah it's not very difficult and a lot of geeks are running a basic adsl modem half bridged to a router running Tomato or DD-WRT

There will be plenty of help here if you run into any trouble.



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  Reply # 380029 15-Sep-2010 10:04
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Well, I ended up purchasing the Netgear DGN3500 modem/router from MightyApe (http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/Netgear-DGN3500-RangeMax-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Modem-Router/8145188/), and things look great so far. While its setup software only runs on Windows, its browser based interface has a setup wizard that does simplify configuration somewhat.


On the LAN side of things, everything appears to be working as expected, with no special config required. I am able to successfully resolve IP addresses via machine name, and AFP appears to be working. Other Bonjour driven features such as printer sharing and shared iTunes libraries also work. These are all things the Belkin Share wouldn't do (which is ironic, considering it DID come bundled with Mac software).

Network performance is excellent, and is a definite improvement over the 10/100 LAN connection of my old modem/router.

In summary, this appears to be the Mac friendly modem/router I was looking for. Time will tell whether it passes the reliability test, but it surely can't be worse than the aging D-Link DSL-G604T it is replacing, which required at least daily restarts.

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