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222 posts

Master Geek


  #1161654 24-Oct-2014 18:59
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Disrespective: That LumenCache system looks interesting. I'll need to look into it more but if all the lighting is running off Cat cables is there allowance to also send data/smart info off the same cable?

Also, if retrofitting the system by adding another light, can it be daisy chained into the system or will it require running another line?


Yes, there is potential to have data sent down the cables, they have plans for smart sensors and control options using the "data" pairs.  At present, you can run both power and switching down the single cat# cable.

Light fixtures can be "daisy chained", as long as the load does not exceed 16 watts on the driver, the best way is to run a new circuit, if this can be done.  Every home should be designed for this type of situation.





"Setting the Standard in Quality and Commitment"

468 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1161656 24-Oct-2014 19:08
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i can see the future of ELV lighting going a similar way to existing control systems where the switches and lamps are addressable via dip switches etc. the power for the lamps and the data signal will be sent down the same wire all chained up.

the problem with ELV is that even though LEDS are way more efficient than 240 lighting, the drop in supply voltage means that cable sizes wont change.

 
 
 
 


222 posts

Master Geek


  #1161671 24-Oct-2014 19:24
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pdh: LumenCache does look like a smart idea - but seem to be losing momentum a bit ? The Epoch line seems to be hanging fire - presumably waiting on some investor funding.

Are there any display sites in NZ ? Would be interested in having a look.

overkill: when you say 'sign up', are you a customer or a dealer ?  


LumenCache was in a little bit of "limbo", waiting for investor funding, so R&D and UL/TUV Testing was a little slow with getting the Epoch line to production.  The Legacy was designed and sold as a "let's show that this works" product and the real push for the company is going to come with Epoch.  Since the big project in Mexico has been given the green light, LumenCache will no doubt push for the beginning of 2015 for the Company launch to products.

My house :)  We use this as a display of sorts, but like a true technician, it is always in a state of getting done and upgraded.  If you are in Wellington and would like to see how LC works, PM me.

We were the first NZ company to sign up as a dealer to LumenCache and will become the Master Dealer when the Epoch line is tested for AS/NZS standards.




"Setting the Standard in Quality and Commitment"

pdh

118 posts

Master Geek


  #1161870 25-Oct-2014 00:51
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overkill
Thanks for that. I'm in Auckland and I don't get down to Wellington as often as I used to. Looks like I should make the effort, at some point, and see if you will be around... Doubt I will need lights & controllers until mid-2015, so I shall keep an eye on LumenCache's progress.

As far as our NZ restrictions on downlights (classic case of simplistic legislation?), does this also affect that style of LED room lights surface-mounted below the gib ? I don't know the correct name for them, but lumieres that look like a dinner plate (or a cow pat ;-) - that screw flat on the ceiling. Using an LED without a local controller, these could be quite thin and quite cool-running. Am I right in thinking that these would not need to obtain anything like the  downlight certifications ?

In the NZ context, if one can source a bunch of such light fixtures - and install/wire RJ-45 sockets on them - wouldn't they work fine with the LumenCache program ?

Something else I need to educate myself on - are there CoC issues with lighting that presume or insist on 240 V reticulation for lights ? I've always assumed that I could light with candles and oil lanterns if I really wanted ;-) But assumptions need to be checked.

16481 posts

Uber Geek


  #1161871 25-Oct-2014 00:53
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graemeh: Central vacuum is also a great thing to have - not very geeky though.


We have it in our home and it is never used. It is noisy, and not really that powerful compared to a miele vacuum. I doubt it adds to the house value. The long hose is annoying too.

222 posts

Master Geek


  #1161903 25-Oct-2014 07:55
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pdh: overkill
Thanks for that. I'm in Auckland and I don't get down to Wellington as often as I used to. Looks like I should make the effort, at some point, and see if you will be around... Doubt I will need lights & controllers until mid-2015, so I shall keep an eye on LumenCache's progress.

As far as our NZ restrictions on downlights (classic case of simplistic legislation?), does this also affect that style of LED room lights surface-mounted below the gib ? I don't know the correct name for them, but lumieres that look like a dinner plate (or a cow pat ;-) - that screw flat on the ceiling. Using an LED without a local controller, these could be quite thin and quite cool-running. Am I right in thinking that these would not need to obtain anything like the  downlight certifications ?

In the NZ context, if one can source a bunch of such light fixtures - and install/wire RJ-45 sockets on them - wouldn't they work fine with the LumenCache program ?

Something else I need to educate myself on - are there CoC issues with lighting that presume or insist on 240 V reticulation for lights ? I've always assumed that I could light with candles and oil lanterns if I really wanted ;-) But assumptions need to be checked.


If you are ever in the area and would like to take a look, do not hesitate to contact us.

Yes you are correct, those type of fixtures do not need to be insulated rated as the rating is only for when the 'down light' goes through the gib and comes in contact with insulation. This type of lighting fixture, that works with either a constant current or constant voltage driver will work well if they can match the specs needed for LumenCache.

There is no specifications that insist on 240 volt only for lighting reticulation, extra low voltage lighting still has to follow the building code, using the same rules, installation and safety practices as Telecommunications, Data wiring etc. The downlight fixtures still have to be rated for insulation, the same as LV circuits.





"Setting the Standard in Quality and Commitment"

468 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1161931 25-Oct-2014 09:47
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ELV main switch panel that is a bit like a POE switch that feeds all the lights and data points and all are programmable /addressable.... that would be cool. then it all could be controlled via your PC.

 
 
 
 


222 posts

Master Geek


  #1162009 25-Oct-2014 15:19
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floydie: ELV main switch panel that is a bit like a POE switch that feeds all the lights and data points and all are programmable /addressable.... that would be cool. then it all could be controlled via your PC.


Check out nuled.com, pretty well much that.




"Setting the Standard in Quality and Commitment"

704 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1162062 25-Oct-2014 17:59
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Overkill, missed an "s"  should be nuleds.com

3267 posts

Uber Geek

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  #1162950 27-Oct-2014 13:44
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Regarding heat in the regulator vs. the LEDs, the head dissipated is similar as the efficiency of both are similar.  The regulator is in a ceiling space which is already at elevated temperature, so if you change to a surface fitting (as opposed to recessed) then ambient temperature is lower so the fitting runs cooler.  A fitting heat sink is also larger than a regulator heat sink, so a fitting feels cooler as the heat is just spread out over a larger area.  Either way, both have similar efficiency until manufacturers decide to spend $1 more on their design and use >90% efficient regulators.  But it will not happen until energy efficiency regulator (as happened with phone chargers).




You can never have enough Volvos!


pdh

118 posts

Master Geek


  #1163006 27-Oct-2014 15:21
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Thanks Overkill & Niel - good info and I will add to my file ;-)

I would guess that the better regulation will come - but there has to be a point of diminishing returns. If I've got a 15 W LED fixture, the difference between 80% and 95% efficient is 2 W - which for most of my lights might be half to one KWh per annum, or around 10-20 cents. Not compelling for the cost today.

I'm surprised at how large the heatsinks on the LED room lights are. Looking at some 900 Lumen Fenix head torches (a heat-sensitive area ;-), they seem to manage the electrical conversion from battery (1.2 to 6+ VDC) dimmable LEDs with pretty tiny heatsink area compared with a modern room light.

Again, as we see the LEDs of the future go beyond 300 Lumens per Watt, the inescapable corollary is that there will be less waste heat and we may, in time, reach LEDs of useful power which require no special heat sink at all. We've only been playing with the things for 15 years.

Overkill - something I can't figure out from the LumenSource website - how are dimming signals sent to the central controller ? is it an analog 0-10 V input or a series of digital ups & downs or what ?

Also, not that it's very important at this level of power use, but am I correct in thinking that our power meters don't care about PWM dimming ? In other words, if you run all your lights at full whack - or dim them (using PWM) - the meter will 'spin' the same and show the same chargeable consumption ?

468 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1163088 27-Oct-2014 17:43
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not really geeky, but i'm putting in a Spore "true" doorbell button. big mofo 48mm illuminated button. :)

http://www.dreamicons.com/spore-true-illuminated-contemporary-doorbell-button-black-p-536.html



48 posts

Geek


  #1172871 11-Nov-2014 14:30
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Why I regret making my house a smart house


An interesting perspective.  I guess one should enjoy the tinkering side and be fairly geek savvy (or wealthy enough to pay someone, often) before embarking on this sort of project...

2044 posts

Uber Geek

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  #1172917 11-Nov-2014 15:45
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Reminds me of a bloke I know who brought a couch for $1500 and ending up making $50k worth of renovations to make it all fit together nicely....




________

 

Antonios K

 

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2452 posts

Uber Geek


  #1172925 11-Nov-2014 16:00
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http://www.chorus.co.nz/wiring-for-fibre 

Have a look at that, it applies even if you're just going xDSL.

My folks new place I have 1xRG6 and 1xCAT6 to bedrooms, master has 2xRG6 and 3xCAT6 around the room for different TV locations and a phone. Each lounge has 3xRG6 and 3xCAT6 at locations they could possibly have a TV. Computer Room has 3xCAT6 and 1xRG6

2xRG6 in the roof space where I will put UniFi AP's

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