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Devastation by stupidity
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  #2004776 29-Apr-2018 22:43
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Any (hypothetical) drone jamming would be pretty short range wouldn't it? We are probably talking about farmers' paddocks well away from urban areas. Any jamming would be of short duration, when the offending drone is in sight. I would think the likelihood of interference (and tracking) in a scenario like  this would be minimal. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2005044 30-Apr-2018 12:04
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Rikkitic:

 

Any (hypothetical) drone jamming would be pretty short range wouldn't it? We are probably talking about farmers' paddocks well away from urban areas. Any jamming would be of short duration, when the offending drone is in sight. I would think the likelihood of interference (and tracking) in a scenario like  this would be minimal. 

 

 

I would be worried about a radio jammer interfering with emergency locator beacons/GPS devices and cellular devices. 

 

God knows what cheap 'drone jammers' bought online actually target frequency wise and may just produce white noise across a stupidly large spectrum with no disregard for anyone/thing else.

 

Last thing Farmers need is blood on their hands from a drone jammer causing the death of a tramper/car accident due to killing any cellphone/locator beacon reception. 


 
 
 
 


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  #2005089 30-Apr-2018 12:30
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Based on my very limited Internet searches, GPS "testers", which jam local GPS signals, have a range of about 30 meters. This is not an easy item to get, thankfully.

I'm not sure about NZ laws, but jamming a GPS signal is a serious crime with serious fines in some countries.

The drone radio jammers I found on the Internet look like a space ray gun, because they are highly directional antennas.

It makes s ense, because it requires a lot less power to send a directional signal than a broadcast.

I'm not saying that someone couldn't send a broad-range full-spectrum broadcast, but if you know enough to create your own, you'd hope you know enough to make it directional.

Again I'm not sure about NZ laws, but broadcasting an unlicensed radio signal is a usually serious crime.

I've also read that some drones are highly sensitive to magnetic interference to their compass, so
magnets from old hard drives is enough to confuse a drone.

So if it were me, I tried magnets, and maybe some form of nets.

You could even try setting up "bat nets", if you knew the general direction the drone was coming from.

http://www.mistnets.com/ultra_mistnets.html

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  #2005092 30-Apr-2018 12:39
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Pumpedd:

Rikkitic:


An item in our local paper about horse riders and farmers being harassed by rogue drones. It seems to be a bigger problem than many realise. The farmers want to know if they can legally shoot down the drones. This makes me wonder if drones can be jammed or misdirected. I don't know much about modern RC. Is it digital and protected in some way or can it be interfered with?


 



If you are jamming drones you are probably also jamming all sorts of other radio signals that could be essential. The short answer is NO. Jamming is more illegal that flying drones.



Jamming would also likely spread over the boundary onto other people's properties and could cause more issues for other people than the quad is causing in the first place. . Some new quads now operate on WiFi so potentially a blocker could block phone calls and wifi connections .

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  #2005382 30-Apr-2018 18:33
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mattwnz:

 

To spook horse and livestock, they would need to be flying them very  low. If they are high up, you can't hear them. I would have thought that radio tracking could find them. Also they should be flying them back to where the are located, so it shouldn't be too hard to find where they were flown from. But without facts in these stories, it is somewhat hypothetical  

 

 

I saw a drone at the weekend flying at about 70 feet over picnic area, it was clearly audible. Would have been more audible to stock, than to me.  They sound like several flies buzzing around to me, so potentially stock would see it as a natural (but irritating noise).

 

It was being flown over a group of people at a scenic lookout location (Mt Kaukau).  Not sure if that was legal, but it sure spoiled the location.  Operator was oblivious to frequent stares from 50-odd people. 





Mike

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  #2006100 1-May-2018 15:58
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Drones seem to use the 2.4 and 5Ghz bands which are also used for wifi, some drones actually use wifi, some also have a homing routines built into them so if they go out of range or lose signal they return home.  So if a drones RF comms were jammed, and its one of the newer expensive ones it will more than likely just return to its operator automatically, its not going to fall out of the sky.

 

If the drone is using 5ghz wifi, then all you need to know is the channel its operating on, get another wifi AP, eg a large ubiquiti powerbeam and set it to the same channel on AP mode and at full output power  (a dish which has a wider beam angle will also help) and aim it up at the drone.  Using expensive RF direction finding equipment could also give the location of the operator.


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  #2006103 1-May-2018 16:03
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More stupid to even think of jamming than flying a drone!!


 
 
 
 


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  #2006114 1-May-2018 16:12
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gareth41:

 

Drones seem to use the 2.4 and 5Ghz bands which are also used for wifi, some drones actually use wifi, some also have a homing routines built into them so if they go out of range or lose signal they return home. 

 

Yip, Althought that can have some interesting consequences,

 

I've seen one taken out by the lads fishing, sent it up looking for fish, drone reached end of battery life and auto returned home,

 

Only problem was the boat had moved about 20 metres in the meantime, - one wet dead drone......


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  #2006176 1-May-2018 18:31
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Drones get "jammed" all the time, like when they fly under a bridge or get out of range.

Assuming the compass and GPS weren't jammed also, they'll typically do one of a few things.

Typically they don't just drop out of the sky and crash, because it could be over water, or a crowd.

Some cheaper ones will just slowly descend and land.

More expensive ones will detect the altitude. If it's below some level, it'll fly straight up and then head "home". Otherwise it'll just fly "home"

Some will go into hover mode, and just wait. I assume if it gets a low battery it'll land.

Some drones if they lose their control signal *AND* GPS will crash land.

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  #2006209 1-May-2018 19:38
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Yeah, DJI ones, even the cheapest one at about $700, will fly home depending on the setting, when it loses signal to the controller. If GPS was also blocked, I suspect that could cause it to malfunction, as it could go into ATI mode and then do a flyaway, until perhaps it regains GPS signal again. That seems to be the main reason people lose them apart from human error. I suspect the ones where people can't see who is controlling them, are some of the more expensive ones which can have a very long range.


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  #2006221 1-May-2018 19:50
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kingdragonfly: I'm not sure about NZ laws, but jamming a GPS signal is a serious crime with serious fines in some countries.

The drone radio jammers I found on the Internet look like a space ray gun, because they are highly directional antennas.

It makes s ense, because it requires a lot less power to send a directional signal than a broadcast.

I'm not saying that someone couldn't send a broad-range full-spectrum broadcast, but if you know enough to create your own, you'd hope you know enough to make it directional.

Again I'm not sure about NZ laws, but broadcasting an unlicensed radio signal is a usually serious crime.

 

Any unlicensed transmission is an infringement under the 1989 Radio Communications Act. This can carry a decent fine for either an individual or body corporate. On the first page of this thread is a link to some recent infringement notices and prosecutions. 

 

New Zealand like many countries does not allow any local transmissions of signals in the frequency band that GPS (and other GNSS signals) use. Even possession of a jammer means that you are presumed to have used it and can be infringed as such for transmitting without a licence. 


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  #2006222 1-May-2018 19:50
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kingdragonfly: I'm not sure about NZ laws, but jamming a GPS signal is a serious crime with serious fines in some countries.

The drone radio jammers I found on the Internet look like a space ray gun, because they are highly directional antennas.

It makes s ense, because it requires a lot less power to send a directional signal than a broadcast.

I'm not saying that someone couldn't send a broad-range full-spectrum broadcast, but if you know enough to create your own, you'd hope you know enough to make it directional.

Again I'm not sure about NZ laws, but broadcasting an unlicensed radio signal is a usually serious crime.

 

Any unlicensed transmission is an infringement under the 1989 Radio Communications Act. This can carry a decent fine for either an individual or body corporate. On the first page of this thread is a link to some recent infringement notices and prosecutions. 

 

New Zealand like many countries does not allow any local transmissions of signals in the frequency band that GPS (and other GNSS signals) use. Even possession of a jammer means that you are presumed to have used it and can be infringed as such for transmitting without a licence. 


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  #2006234 1-May-2018 20:08
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knoydart:

 

kingdragonfly: I'm not sure about NZ laws, but jamming a GPS signal is a serious crime with serious fines in some countries.

The drone radio jammers I found on the Internet look like a space ray gun, because they are highly directional antennas.

It makes s ense, because it requires a lot less power to send a directional signal than a broadcast.

I'm not saying that someone couldn't send a broad-range full-spectrum broadcast, but if you know enough to create your own, you'd hope you know enough to make it directional.

Again I'm not sure about NZ laws, but broadcasting an unlicensed radio signal is a usually serious crime.

 

Any unlicensed transmission is an infringement under the 1989 Radio Communications Act. This can carry a decent fine for either an individual or body corporate. On the first page of this thread is a link to some recent infringement notices and prosecutions. 

 

New Zealand like many countries does not allow any local transmissions of signals in the frequency band that GPS (and other GNSS signals) use. Even possession of a jammer means that you are presumed to have used it and can be infringed as such for transmitting without a licence. 

 

 

Does a drone transmit? I don't know, genuinely asking. I assume it does, as in video, info. So where is the line drawn?


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  #2006236 1-May-2018 20:11
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Does a drone transmit? I don't know, genuinely asking. I assume it does, as in video, info. So where is the line drawn?

 

 

 

 

Yeap, it sends realtime video back to the controller, which sends it to the mobile device attached to it. In some cases these use wifi bands, eg 2.4G


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  #2006238 1-May-2018 20:16
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Does a drone transmit? I don't know, genuinely asking. I assume it does, as in video, info. So where is the line drawn?

 

 

 

 

Yeap, it sends realtime video back to the controller, which sends it to the mobile device attached to it. In some cases these use wifi bands, eg 2.4G

 

 

Also all drones use what are known as General User Radio Licences (GURLs). These are typically the "short range devices" GURL which to most people are the "wifi" bands. There is also a specific model aircraft GURL which is a lot low frequency - around 30 - 70 MHz from memory and generally used by the model aircraft people rather than off the shelf drones. 


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