3D printer buyers - how long before your 3D printer was on trademe? (a new hobby question...)

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#2009972 8-May-2018 13:55

neb: As I said, given the choice between a CNC mill and a 3D printer, I'd take the mill any day.

I think if you are already an experienced "maker" or have a focus on a clear, practical and frequent application for the tool I can agree with this.

As a hobbiest taking those first, tentative steps, the price of entry for a decent 3D printer is infinitely more palatable compared to any kind of user-friendly CNC mill!

irongarment

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#2009980 8-May-2018 14:00

neb:

The last time I saw something printed by one, a relatively recent Stratasys, it still needed to build up solids by honeycombing, and the result looked flimsy and 3D printed. I was told by the guy running it that it was more reliable than it looked, but I haven't gone back and asked him if it's broken yet. I wasn't impressed.

As I said, given the choice between a CNC mill and a 3D printer, I'd take the mill any day.

Yes, that's how they work. The percentage of material used for the honeycomb infill balances strength, weight, cost, and printing time. It should be no surprise that the output looked 3D printed. I'm sure all your CNC stuff looks CNCed.

I'd love a CNC mill, but my 3D printer is quite versatile, and I'm very happy with its capabilities.

Rikkitic

Devastation by stupidity
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#2009981 8-May-2018 14:00

Seriously, does a 3d-printed gun have a greater chance of blowing your hand off?

I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney

irongarment

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#2009987 8-May-2018 14:07

Rikkitic:
Seriously, does a 3d-printed gun have a greater chance of blowing your hand off?

That escalated quickly.

Yes, it does. It's made of plastic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printed_firearms

Talkiet

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#2009999 8-May-2018 14:30

irongarment:
neb:
Item:

So for those of you that have already made the leap and bought a 3D Printer as a hobby/toy and without any specific or ongoing application in mind - how did it work out for you?

I haven't bought one but keep looking into them from time to time. It's very difficult to come up with a usage scenario in which a CNC milling machine isn't much more useful if you want to create items that you intend to actually use: With a 3D printer you can make fragile, and typically kinda rough-looking, prototypes, with a CNC mill you can make actual items for use.

Sorry, grandad. These days 3D prints are strong and smooth, and you can make actual items for use.

I guess I'm technically old enough to be a grand-dad, but the 3d printed parts I have on my racecar have bent and are not heat resistant... I have CNCed up some parts out of aluminium and Acetal to replace them and they are much much much better.

3d printed parts are ok in some instances, but they are comparatively fragile and dimensionally comical compared to what can be produced from even an entry level CNC mill. (Note SLA and LMD/DMD aren't suitable for home use, not really)

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

irongarment

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#2010008 8-May-2018 14:41

Talkiet:
I guess I'm technically old enough to be a grand-dad, but the 3d printed parts I have on my racecar have bent

To the complete surprise of absolutely no-one.

Perhaps you should have carved them from soap, or woven them from straw?

The correct answer is of course 'it depends'. 3D printers are great. You can use them to make useful things. They are also unsuitable for certain applications. Most of which are blindingly obvious, but that doesn't seem to put some people off.

Talkiet

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#2010034 8-May-2018 14:55

irongarment:
Talkiet:

I guess I'm technically old enough to be a grand-dad, but the 3d printed parts I have on my racecar have bent

To the complete surprise of absolutely no-one.

Perhaps you should have carved them from soap, or woven them from straw?

The correct answer is of course 'it depends'. 3D printers are great. You can use them to make useful things. They are also unsuitable for certain applications. Most of which are blindingly obvious, but that doesn't seem to put some people off.

Wow. Look at the assumptions you have made there. It's like you think I 3d printed steering uprights or something.

case for Digital Dash. 3d print bent and not dimensionally accurate enough plus being in direct sunlight would soften. Machined out of Acetal.

Case for tyre temp monitor / canbus / GPS logger: 3d printed. This is fine

Case for voltage signal converters to get 12v signals down to 3.3v for Teensy. This is fine

Case for tyre temp monitors to go inside wheel guards. Even in ABS these bent and had to be made so large to compensate for lack of strength that clearancing became an issue. Machining overlay plates out of aluminium.

temporary adaptors for a light bar. 3d print not strong enough so machined out of inch thick HDPE.

The point wasn't that 3d prints are useless for everything, it was that they are quite weak in comparison to other methods of production. I have both a 3d printer and a CNC and use both.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

irongarment

281 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2010035 8-May-2018 14:58

Talkiet:
irongarment:
Talkiet:

I guess I'm technically old enough to be a grand-dad, but the 3d printed parts I have on my racecar have bent

To the complete surprise of absolutely no-one.

Perhaps you should have carved them from soap, or woven them from straw?

The correct answer is of course 'it depends'. 3D printers are great. You can use them to make useful things. They are also unsuitable for certain applications. Most of which are blindingly obvious, but that doesn't seem to put some people off.

Wow. Look at the assumptions you have made there. It's like you think I 3d printed steering uprights or something.

case for Digital Dash. 3d print bent and not dimensionally accurate enough plus being in direct sunlight would soften. Machined out of Acetal.

Case for tyre temp monitor / canbus / GPS logger: 3d printed. This is fine

Case for voltage signal converters to get 12v signals down to 3.3v for Teensy. This is fine

Case for tyre temp monitors to go inside wheel guards. Even in ABS these bent and had to be made so large to compensate for lack of strength that clearancing became an issue. Machining overlay plates out of aluminium.

temporary adaptors for a light bar. 3d print not strong enough so machined out of inch thick HDPE.

The point wasn't that 3d prints are useless for everything, it was that they are quite weak in comparison to other methods of production. I have both a 3d printer and a CNC and use both.

Cheers - N

So, basically, what you're saying is 'it depends'.

Talkiet

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#2010037 8-May-2018 15:00

irongarment:
So, basically, what you're saying is 'it depends'.

Yes, but without suggesting anyone was dumb enough to make racing car parts out of soap or straw.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

FireEngine

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#2010045 8-May-2018 15:13

Talkiet:

it was that they are quite weak in comparison to other methods of production.

Is it really <just> a materials issue though? Or an inherent weakness in the 3D print process per se?

Regards FireEngine

NZSpides

146 posts

Master Geek

#2010051 8-May-2018 15:15

I started building my 3D printer a year ago and I'm still printing things off every now and then.

I recently printed off an Apple Watch charging stand, it looks good enough I did no after print fix ups other than removing support material.

Some people do get confused that you can 3D print anything, you can't.
There are many applications that just aren't suited for Fused deposition Modeling (FDM) - the standard filament printers out there for hobbyists.
There are other 3D printing methods that have amazing capabilities that leave FDM for dead, but they often very expensive and often have limitations of their own.

A Prusa printer is actually a well known and respected brand, but I didn't get one. :-)

Talkiet

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#2010053 8-May-2018 15:17

FireEngine:

Talkiet:

it was that they are quite weak in comparison to other methods of production.

Is it really <just> a materials issue though? Or an inherent weakness in the 3D print process per se?

I wasn't going to go into that level of detail but I know from experience that I have had different levels of layer adhesion based on temperature, filament type and layer heights... There's certainly factors beyond just the raw material type.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

FireEngine

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#2010054 8-May-2018 15:18

Talkiet:

I wasn't going to go into that level of detail but I know from experience that I have had different levels of layer adhesion based on temperature, filament type and layer heights... There's certainly factors beyond just the raw material type.

Cheers - N

Cool - thanks

Regards FireEngine

irongarment

281 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2010058 8-May-2018 15:28

FireEngine:
Talkiet:

it was that they are quite weak in comparison to other methods of production.

Is it really <just> a materials issue though? Or an inherent weakness in the 3D print process per se?

It depends.

Here's some guy's notes on characterising the relative strength of parts produced with variations in their construction:
https://hackaday.io/project/12439-fdmproperties

There are also lots of articles online about how amazing it is that some 3D printed parts are strong enough for certain applications.

Here's one:
https://hackaday.com/2017/10/17/stripping-3d-printed-gears-for-science/

frankv

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#2010310 8-May-2018 20:32

I'm onto my 3rd (well, second really, haven't got the 3rd one working yet) in about 3 years. I've loaned my first printer (a little 100x100x100 PrintrBot) out to a friend.

Made some toys and a couple of useful things. Probably if I had a CNC mill I would have used that.

But, for me, 3D printing now is like computing was in the 1980s (Yes, I *am* a grandad!) Lots of experimenting and home-brewing and information-sharing and improving the printer itself. The RepRap community is *way* stronger than any corporate in the 3D printing space.

As per the various comments here, 3D printers are good for prototyping, not so good for making stuff in a production mode. There is also a steep learning curve to get printer reliability. It seems like just after I get things tuned in really nice, some other part wears or loosens which changes the geometry enough to be a nuisance. Regarding weak/warping parts: Quite often, that's a matter of the printer itself being sloppy; play in belts and bearings leads to lack of repeatability and poor layer adhesion. My comment has always been that a 3d printer will cost you at least a $1000. If you pay less than a $1000 for it up front, you'll pay for it as you go, at about $1 per hour.

Don't plan on making plastic bits to fix toys; there's a lot of measuring and designing and trial and error even in a small clip. You're better off buying a new toy, unless you already have good CAD skills and work for $1/hour.

Don't plan on printing big things; big things take a *long* time to print (hours to days, depending on quality), and 3D printing isn't *that* reliable. Double the size, octuple the time. And the chance of something going wrong. And the cost. And the cost of each failure. About 200x200x200 print volume seems to be a sweet spot where you can print useful stuff; 100 cubed is too small; 300cubed is too big and slow..

Actually, for me, I found I get more of a buzz out of designing something. Printing something that someone else has designed is a bit ho-hum, like running someone else's program. Although it is cool to be able make things with precision and quality; kindof laying the ghosts of woodwork & metalwork failures at school.

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