Certificate of Compliance for dimmer installation?

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#3072755 5-May-2023 17:35

tchart:

eracode:

Would that be classed as 'like for like'?

Im 99% sure it is.

Moving of sockets/switches is allowed (by home owner) as long as you arent modifying the length of the circuit so I dont believe it requires a CC.

Swapping a non-dimmable to dimmable switch is considered like for like - same as swapping for a smart switch is.

From worksafe;

https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/managing-health-and-safety/consumers/safe-living-with-electricity/getting-electrical-work-done/doing-your-own-electrical-work/

It depends on exactly how the electrician does the job, if no additional wiring is required then just an ESC (Low risk ESC only) , if any of the wiring is extended then this triggers the "General Risk" which means a COC and a ESC although this is usually combined on one form.

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networkn

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#3072760 5-May-2023 18:36

gregmcc:

It depends on exactly how the electrician does the job, if no additional wiring is required then just an ESC (Low risk ESC only) , if any of the wiring is extended then this triggers the "General Risk" which means a COC and a ESC although this is usually combined on one form.

This guy electricians :)

tchart

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#3072867 6-May-2023 08:43

John19612:
tchart:

He didn’t say he’s adding a dimmer. He’s replacing the existing switch with a dimmer switch. He’s not altering the circuit AFAIK

Yes he did, multiple times:

We have arranged via Builderscrack for a sparkie to come this afternoon to install a dimmer in a LED light circuit in our kitchen. The existing pendant light is dimmable but does not currently have a dimmer. For physical reasons (existing switch too small) the job also requires a new mounting block and faceplate (incorporating the dimmer and a new switch) next to the existing switch. The existing wiring will be transferred to the new switch and the old switch will be disabled.

Thanks Guys. The existing light wiring is to be moved to a new switch in a new location (a few inches away) and the dimmer is a new addition. Would that be classed as 'like for like'?

I think you missed the part where the existing wiring is being moved to the new switch and the old switch being disabled.

So yes like for like but physical constraints mean the new switch will be in a slightly different position.

Otherwise that some cowboy level renovations

Anyway regardless OP was referring to. CoC which is not required. ESC is.

eracode

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#3072886 6-May-2023 09:30

tchart:

I think you missed the part where the existing wiring is being moved to the new switch and the old switch being disabled.

So yes like for like but physical constraints mean the new switch will be in a slightly different position.

Otherwise that some cowboy level renovations

Anyway regardless OP was referring to CoC which is not required. ESC is.

I think you missed the part where I said (as OP) that a dimmer is being introduced into the circuit - and that means it's not 'like for like' - as @John19612 correctly pointed out. It's not as simple as just a "new switch in a slightly different position".

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Bung

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#3072892 6-May-2023 10:45

eracode:
I think you missed the part where I said (as OP) that a dimmer is being introduced into the circuit - and that means it's not 'like for like' - as @John19612 correctly pointed out. It's not as simple as just a "new switch in a slightly different position".

An electrician would probably point out that regarding "like for like" "Those words do not appear anywhere in ESRs (nor in any Regs for at least 40 years), and they are very misleading because everyone has their own interpretation of just how "like" the replacement has to be."

One Australian State regards "like for like" as connecting to existing circuit wiring, not increasing circuit load and AS approved.

John19612

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#3072939 6-May-2023 10:48

An electrician would probably point out that regarding "like for like" "Those words do not appear anywhere in ESRs (nor in any Regs for at least 40 years), and they are very misleading because everyone has their own interpretation of just how "like" the replacement has to be."

One Australian State regards "like for like" as connecting to existing circuit wiring, not increasing circuit load and AS approved.

Bingo.

larknz

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#3073065 6-May-2023 13:08

You may not have noticed but we are not an Australian state yet. NZ interpretation may be different, for that matter each Australian state probably has a different interpretation.

Bung

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#3073155 6-May-2023 15:37

larknz: You may not have noticed but we are not an Australian state yet.

It's hard not to notice, Australia doesn't allow any electrical work by unlicensed people. Homeowner exemption doesn't exist there.

gregmcc

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#3073169 6-May-2023 17:00

Bung:
larknz: You may not have noticed but we are not an Australian state yet.

It's hard not to notice, Australia doesn't allow any electrical work by unlicensed people. Homeowner exemption doesn't exist there.

Do you know why the exemption for homeowner work was created?

There are some basic legal principals, if there isn't a law against it then it legal to do.

Home owner exemption laid down exactly what a home owner is allowed to do and one important thing that the homeowner must do before their work is livened - checked by an inspector......I have yet to come across any homeowner that has been able to get an inspector to sign off their work (or any inspector who has signed off homeowner work) so when the homeowner livens up work they done they are providing a pathway to prosecution.

Handle9

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#3073174 6-May-2023 17:36

gregmcc:
[.I have yet to come across any homeowner that has been able to get an inspector to sign off their work (or any inspector who has signed off homeowner work) so when the homeowner livens up work they done they are providing a pathway to prosecution.

So it’s a similar chance of getting an inspector to getting prosecuted as a homeowner?

There’s a possibility of being prosecuted as a homeowner but in practice it almost never happens. The EWRB is far more interested in prosecuting people illegally doing electrical work for profit than a homeowner replacing a light switch.

eracode

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#3073253 6-May-2023 23:52

Handle9:

There’s a possibility of being prosecuted as a homeowner but in practice it almost never happens. The EWRB is far more interested in prosecuting people illegally doing electrical work for profit than a homeowner replacing a light switch.

My fear would be that if I did the dimmer install myself, in the admittedly minuscule chance that the work caused a fire, the insurance company could investigate. They could easily find where the fire started and start asking who did the work etc. We’d look pretty silly if they declined the claim for a burnt-down house.

I was happy to pay $120 for the peace-of-mind of getting it done by a qualified sparkie who gave me a proper ESC.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Handle9

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#3073256 7-May-2023 00:45

eracode:
Handle9:

There’s a possibility of being prosecuted as a homeowner but in practice it almost never happens. The EWRB is far more interested in prosecuting people illegally doing electrical work for profit than a homeowner replacing a light switch.

My fear would be that if I did the dimmer install myself, in the admittedly minuscule chance that the work caused a fire, the insurance company could investigate. They could easily find where the fire started and start asking who did the work etc. You’d look pretty silly if they declined the claim for a burnt-down house.

I was happy to pay $120 for the peace-of-mind of getting it done by a qualified sparkie who gave me a proper ESC.

You’ll note I didn’t suggest doing your own electrical work. If you aren’t competent you should not do electrical work.

I was responding to FUD, not encouraging people to doing things that aren’t safe.

larknz

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#3073262 7-May-2023 05:56

Getting back to the original topic. A sparkie who does this job is not required to issue a CoC, but is required to issue an Electrical Safety Certificate.

John19612

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#3073263 7-May-2023 06:36

larknz: Getting back to the original topic. A sparkie who does this job is not required to issue a CoC, but is required to issue an Electrical Safety Certificate.

No. The additional installation of a dimmer is neither maintenance nor replacement of the existing sub circuit fittings. Therefore, it fails to the meet the ESR definition of low-risk PEW. A CoC and ESC is required as it is general-risk PEW.

eracode

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#3073264 7-May-2023 07:05

Handle9:

You’ll note I didn’t suggest doing your own electrical work. If you aren’t competent you should not do electrical work.

I was responding to FUD, not encouraging people to doing things that aren’t safe.

You did refer to homeowners doing their own work - even if you weren’t encouraging it.

As it happens, I did know how to install the dimmer and I was momentarily tempted to do it - but I chose not to because it wasn’t legal for me to do so and didn’t want to take the insurance risk I mentioned.

All I was asking in the OP was what documentation was required to have it properly recorded.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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