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2438 posts

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  #1467370 11-Jan-2016 09:54
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MikeB4:
lxsw20: Mike, I can tell by the way you are around these forums that the public sector probably suited you down to the ground, but it isn't for everyone for reasons pointed out in this thread already. 


Care to explain this, given you don't really know me


No, I don't know you and don't profess to, but I know your post style and thoughts on things like policing. Follow the rules, question nothing, the more red tape the better, public perception is more important than actual results. - Just calling it as I see it :)

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  #1467387 11-Jan-2016 10:18
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lxsw20:
MikeB4:
lxsw20: Mike, I can tell by the way you are around these forums that the public sector probably suited you down to the ground, but it isn't for everyone for reasons pointed out in this thread already. 


Care to explain this, given you don't really know me


No, I don't know you and don't profess to, but I know your post style and thoughts on things like policing. Follow the rules, question nothing, the more red tape the better, public perception is more important than actual results. - Just calling it as I see it :)


Your view of me is incorrect, but no more about that this thread is not about me. If you want to know more PM me and I will let you know more, you would be surprised.




Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


 
 
 
 


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  #1467388 11-Jan-2016 10:22
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I'm not super interested tbh, it's just the perception. 

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  #1467393 11-Jan-2016 10:30
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lxsw20: I'm not super interested tbh, it's just the perception. 



Hmmmm, how do you answer that?




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  #1467395 11-Jan-2016 10:32
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khull: I'm going to generalize and exaggerate here and refer public organization as "government or crown entity", if one takes offense, consider standing in front of a mirror.

Working culture is "relaxed", 9-5 bums on seat is critical over actual productivity. People cover their asses first over any meaningful outcome. Meetings with no action points are common, you will get told the department has ran over budget but no worry, the tax payer is still funding your morning tea.

Perfect work life balance if you have children.

Words like "solution options", "full picture", "steering committee", "ELT" get thrown into every day meetings and conversations to avoid making decisions. Never change your mind after a decision is made. But you have full authority to point blame to external parties, vendors and suppliers for the benefit of your department.




You will get paid twice as much for half the outputs required of your role.

Lastly your minister is God reincarnated.

If any of the above sounds appealing, congrats you will almost be certainly hired


Sounds like a few large corporates I know of. sealed  Just replace Minister with CEO or similar.




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Ultimate Geek


  #1467400 11-Jan-2016 10:39
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I've worked privately, and for public sector. Currently I work in consulting, to both sectors equally.

The main issues with public sector are budget restraints, and supply agreements. The public sector prepare agreements to supply services to the nation, and these agreements are approved by Ministers. What that means is everything they do is tied to those agreements, and there is very little flexibility to be agile, to take decisions or risks, or to over-achieve. In some ways this risk-averse approach provide a decent baseline of services to most of us, but edge-cases are poorly handled.

The second and more problematic issue is under-funding for the services to be delivered. This leads to lower salaries, and those who can command higher salaries tend to find work in the private sector. Unless the staff member finds a calling for say social work or public health, you will find lower quality staff in the public sector, especially around support functions like IT, finance, and HR. Under-funding also means greater stress on the front line, as fewer people need to deliver more.

Overall, if you are used to agility, authority to act, decisiveness' then the public sector may not be for you. I found it frustrating to be continuously scrutinised as well - overly intrusive reporting requirements and constant audits.

But if you have a passion for social services and serving the community, then the Public Sector gives you that in spades - if you like digging slowly and collaboratively.

There are a lot of great people with talent working in the Public Sector, but also a lot of people for whom the working style better suits their abilities.




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  #1467411 11-Jan-2016 10:49
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Technofreak:
khull: I'm going to generalize and exaggerate here and refer public organization as "government or crown entity", if one takes offense, consider standing in front of a mirror.

Working culture is "relaxed", 9-5 bums on seat is critical over actual productivity. People cover their asses first over any meaningful outcome. Meetings with no action points are common, you will get told the department has ran over budget but no worry, the tax payer is still funding your morning tea.

Perfect work life balance if you have children.

Words like "solution options", "full picture", "steering committee", "ELT" get thrown into every day meetings and conversations to avoid making decisions. Never change your mind after a decision is made. But you have full authority to point blame to external parties, vendors and suppliers for the benefit of your department.




You will get paid twice as much for half the outputs required of your role.

Lastly your minister is God reincarnated.

If any of the above sounds appealing, congrats you will almost be certainly hired


Sounds like a few large corporates I know of. sealed  Just replace Minister with CEO or similar.


Ministers have limited direct dealings with Departments etc




Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


 
 
 
 


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  #1467428 11-Jan-2016 11:11
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kirinlager007: Hi all, 

I'm considering a career switch working from a private organization to taking up roles with public organizations such as NZTE.

If there are people out there already working for the government, would appreciate your views on what the working culture is like - pros vs cons etc.

I'm well aware it will depend on the organization and the people that run it, and also which division but again it would be interesting to get the gist of it.

Thanks!


In my experience of government, the culture depends on who the government is. 

When National is in government the pay gets stuck, you end up doing the work of several people, you're treated like a parasite and they want to outsource your job yesterday. You get pissed off and leave. 

When Labour is in government, you have some pride in your work. You're treated with respect and your work is valued.  

This is why I never vote for National. They are TERRIBLE employers. 




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  #1467429 11-Jan-2016 11:19
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Linuxluver:
kirinlager007: Hi all, 

I'm considering a career switch working from a private organization to taking up roles with public organizations such as NZTE.

If there are people out there already working for the government, would appreciate your views on what the working culture is like - pros vs cons etc.

I'm well aware it will depend on the organization and the people that run it, and also which division but again it would be interesting to get the gist of it.

Thanks!


In my experience of government, the culture depends on who the government is. 

When National is in government the pay gets stuck, you end up doing the work of several people, you're treated like a parasite and they want to outsource your job yesterday. You get pissed off and leave. 

When Labour is in government, you have some pride in your work. You're treated with respect and your work is valued.  

This is why I never vote for National. They are TERRIBLE employers. 


In more than two decades in Government I worked under both National and Labour Governments, I never experienced what you are saying here. The political party is not the employer
the Government Agency is with oversight from State Services. The political wing is for policy and law  etc




Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa




18 posts

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  #1467435 11-Jan-2016 11:33
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MikeB4:
Linuxluver:
kirinlager007: Hi all, 

I'm considering a career switch working from a private organization to taking up roles with public organizations such as NZTE.

If there are people out there already working for the government, would appreciate your views on what the working culture is like - pros vs cons etc.

I'm well aware it will depend on the organization and the people that run it, and also which division but again it would be interesting to get the gist of it.

Thanks!


In my experience of government, the culture depends on who the government is. 

When National is in government the pay gets stuck, you end up doing the work of several people, you're treated like a parasite and they want to outsource your job yesterday. You get pissed off and leave. 

When Labour is in government, you have some pride in your work. You're treated with respect and your work is valued.  

This is why I never vote for National. They are TERRIBLE employers. 


In more than two decades in Government I worked under both National and Labour Governments, I never experienced what you are saying here. The political party is not the employer
the Government Agency is with oversight from State Services. The political wing is for policy and law  etc



Mike - what are your views on salary raises (and bonuses, if any??) in the public sector?  Seems like there are many comments saying that pay isn't that attractive but a work-life balance is a stronger attraction for those that want to get into this industry.

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  #1467479 11-Jan-2016 12:09
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My wife used to work for the Mayors office, it is safe to say that (at least while she was there) the culture was one that most people would not find enjoyable, the work life balance could best be described as way out of balance and not in a way that ratepayers would appreciate, the levels of policy/protocol and BS were baffling. granted these are secondhand views. The wife used to bring home a lot of stress from there which impacts homelife, save to say now she is in a completely different role in a different industry and far far happier, the whole family is far far happier

Unfortunately the only way to see if the public org culture works for you is to try it, some people love it, but it spits others out unfortunately 

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  #1467489 11-Jan-2016 12:28
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Wade: My wife used to work for the Mayors office, it is safe to say that (at least while she was there) the culture was one that most people would not find enjoyable, the work life balance could best be described as way out of balance and not in a way that ratepayers would appreciate, the levels of policy/protocol and BS were baffling. granted these are secondhand views. The wife used to bring home a lot of stress from there which impacts homelife, save to say now she is in a completely different role in a different industry and far far happier, the whole family is far far happier

Unfortunately the only way to see if the public org culture works for you is to try it, some people love it, but it spits others out unfortunately 


As unfortunate as this experience was no doubt for her wife, it doesn't (I believe) reflect the civil service or central/local government jobs generally. Other places like Ministers' offices (partially staffed by govt employees, many seconded from their government departments) are another example of areas which have their own clearly distinct culture, work ethic, requirements etc - usually the tempo is considerably higher than in a govt department, and similarly the work level and expectations to sacrifice one's life to the job are that much higher.

Equally, such levels of stress can be found in other public service roles or the private sector...

OP - most central govt departments have their employees on performance-related pay, where pay increases are typically linked to the previous year's performance (measured through completing a PDP or similar). "Bonuses" are not common, and appear to be getting less common, but can (and note this will totally be dependent on the specific department, and also whatever the latest guidance from the SSC is) be used as one-off payments for performance, in particular in situations where an employee is already at the top of their pay scale (so no room to increase base salary).

Most employments agreements in place (most govt agencies have a collective agreement negotiated with the union; this also is used as a basis for individual agreements) provide for regular reviews of pay scales to reflect movement in pay. For most roles this is based on movement within the public sector, though in certain fields it'll include private sector data (IT is typically one area where it's acknowledged the departments are competing with the private sector for employees). Such reviews don't always lead to increases, and may also be applied selectively, eg one large department I worked for used to (may still?) would increase pay scales but move staff to the new scale on a $-for-$ basis, not a point-to-point (so essentially existing staff slipped down the payscale). This kind of thing leads to disparity between new and existing employees. Other places, including my current employer, make such payscale moves on a point-to-point basis, meaning current employees receive an increase to take-home pay.

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  #1467814 11-Jan-2016 17:30
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MikeB4:
Linuxluver:
kirinlager007: Hi all, 

I'm considering a career switch working from a private organization to taking up roles with public organizations such as NZTE.

If there are people out there already working for the government, would appreciate your views on what the working culture is like - pros vs cons etc.

I'm well aware it will depend on the organization and the people that run it, and also which division but again it would be interesting to get the gist of it.

Thanks!


In my experience of government, the culture depends on who the government is. 

When National is in government the pay gets stuck, you end up doing the work of several people, you're treated like a parasite and they want to outsource your job yesterday. You get pissed off and leave. 

When Labour is in government, you have some pride in your work. You're treated with respect and your work is valued.  

This is why I never vote for National. They are TERRIBLE employers. 


In more than two decades in Government I worked under both National and Labour Governments, I never experienced what you are saying here. The political party is not the employer
the Government Agency is with oversight from State Services. The political wing is for policy and law  etc


What Ministry were you in? 

 

 

 

 




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My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


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  #1467828 11-Jan-2016 17:54
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kirinlager007:
MikeB4:
Linuxluver:
kirinlager007: Hi all, 

I'm considering a career switch working from a private organization to taking up roles with public organizations such as NZTE.

If there are people out there already working for the government, would appreciate your views on what the working culture is like - pros vs cons etc.

I'm well aware it will depend on the organization and the people that run it, and also which division but again it would be interesting to get the gist of it.

Thanks!


In my experience of government, the culture depends on who the government is. 

When National is in government the pay gets stuck, you end up doing the work of several people, you're treated like a parasite and they want to outsource your job yesterday. You get pissed off and leave. 

When Labour is in government, you have some pride in your work. You're treated with respect and your work is valued.  

This is why I never vote for National. They are TERRIBLE employers. 


In more than two decades in Government I worked under both National and Labour Governments, I never experienced what you are saying here. The political party is not the employer
the Government Agency is with oversight from State Services. The political wing is for policy and law  etc



Mike - what are your views on salary raises (and bonuses, if any??) in the public sector?  Seems like there are many comments saying that pay isn't that attractive but a work-life balance is a stronger attraction for those that want to get into this industry.


Pay rises were like most sectors, pay progression was done based on performance not longevity. In the units I managed we had to pay as close to market rates as budgets allowed in order to attract suitable qualified staff. Hours of work and leave were the same as any sector.

 

I did 3 monthly performance review updates with staff to gauge performance against agreed targets and goals. I did annual reviews to finalise performance and assess salary reviews if appropriate.

The whole job for life thing is an absolute myth and has been so for a long time, redundancy and dismissals were comparable to any sector.




Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


1149 posts

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  #1478072 25-Jan-2016 10:17
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I have been in business all my life (>35 years). Running my own companies or working for a company or doing both in parallel.

 

In NZ applied for Public roles twice recently - Council job and MSD. Motivated solely by close proximity to the place I live.

 

Was prepared to accept less (on assumption that they pay less) and walk to the office rather than drive.

 

Discovered by accident and only after application that those roles which were called similar to what I did / or currently do in business are paid way more!

 

Attn: Government Agencies - especially those in need for intelligent service and inquisitive mind - you are missing on the opportunity to get more for less (on the proviso - the job has to be in the walking distance from my home).

 

 


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