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Devastation by stupidity
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  #2004054 28-Apr-2018 12:41
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nunz:

 

Here is my end word: Would you want your wife, daughter, mother involved in prostitution? If not why not? After all it is consenting and makes money? Or is there more than just that at stake?

 

 

The end word for me would be how she felt about it. I personally see sex as a normal body function, like defecation or sneezing, except it is more fun. But we have the weight of all the moralising and religiosity and prudishness and displaced frustration that has grown up around it for the past few thousand years. All this baggage has distorted a perfectly natural thing that we are all born with.

 

I love my cats, I really do. I have a very strong bond with them. But I don't have sex them. I believe sex and love are different things that have got tangled up together to the detriment of both. Human beings are physical creatures.  If you love someone having sex with them is a natural expression of that. But it is not something so intrinsically special that it can only be indulged in after you have 'fallen in love' and gone through a bunch of rituals. Anyone can sneeze. Anyone can have sex. What is the big deal? Are there not people who truly love each other but never have sex? If so, can there not be people who always have sex but don't love each other at all? Or who also have sex with people they don't love?

 

If I was very close to someone, such as a daughter, and she genuinely wanted to be a prostitute for whatever reason, and she was happy with it and not damaged by the inevitable social opprobrium, then I do not think I would have a problem with it. I think anyone who would have a problem just has a problem with sex. 

 

I also have enormous respect for the work you have done in India. That takes real courage and commitment. It cannot be applauded loudly enough. I couldn't do it and that makes you a better person than I am. But I still believe the women you worked with were victims because of the unfair social and economic circumstances imposed upon them, and the evil people who exploited and profited from them. I do not accept that they were victims because they were selling sex. I just don't make that connection.  

 

 





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  #2004637 29-Apr-2018 17:59
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Rikkitic:

 

nunz:

 

Here is my end word: Would you want your wife, daughter, mother involved in prostitution? If not why not? After all it is consenting and makes money? Or is there more than just that at stake?

 

 

The end word for me would be how she felt about it. I personally see sex as a normal body function, like defecation or sneezing, except it is more fun. But we have the weight of all the moralising and religiosity and prudishness and displaced frustration that has grown up around it for the past few thousand years. All this baggage has distorted a perfectly natural thing that we are all born with.

 

I love my cats, I really do. I have a very strong bond with them. But I don't have sex them. I believe sex and love are different things that have got tangled up together to the detriment of both. Human beings are physical creatures.  If you love someone having sex with them is a natural expression of that. But it is not something so intrinsically special that it can only be indulged in after you have 'fallen in love' and gone through a bunch of rituals. Anyone can sneeze. Anyone can have sex. What is the big deal? Are there not people who truly love each other but never have sex? If so, can there not be people who always have sex but don't love each other at all? Or who also have sex with people they don't love?

 

If I was very close to someone, such as a daughter, and she genuinely wanted to be a prostitute for whatever reason, and she was happy with it and not damaged by the inevitable social opprobrium, then I do not think I would have a problem with it. I think anyone who would have a problem just has a problem with sex. 

 

I also have enormous respect for the work you have done in India. That takes real courage and commitment. It cannot be applauded loudly enough. I couldn't do it and that makes you a better person than I am. But I still believe the women you worked with were victims because of the unfair social and economic circumstances imposed upon them, and the evil people who exploited and profited from them. I do not accept that they were victims because they were selling sex. I just don't make that connection.  

 

 

Fair call. One of the "difficultys" of being Christian is a belief in a spiritual dynamic to our beings - and for many of us, sex has a spiritual dynamic that has to be looked at. For me it is that connection between two souls  / spirits that adds the difficulty of seeing sex as a casual act. It's too intimate compared to sneezing. (although my wife would rather we 'made love' than i sneezed on her I'm sure <grin>)

 

As for India - it doesn't make me a better person - just one whose life took him down a different route.

 

I currently work part time at a community house after my big accident a couple of years ago. I get to give to a lot of people, making a difference in their lives and that too can be seen as noble. However i would have to say I get more out of it than I could ever give.

 

One of the guys is 67 and he spends time each week helping a lady with bad cerebral palsy participate in the mens shed - doing wood work. He confided to me he feels selfish doing it he reckons he gets more out of it than she does - the feel good factor. I told him he is welcome to be as selfish like that as he wants.

 

However it does highlight something - often we get more out of giving than we ever do out of receiving. I got more out of India than I'll ever give back. Ditto community work, working with behaviour kids, drug rehab etc. My life is far better for doing it. If that makes make me noble - so be it - but I reckon I'm just 'selfish'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2004642 29-Apr-2018 18:21
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nunz:

 

Rikkitic:

 

nunz:

 

Here is my end word: Would you want your wife, daughter, mother involved in prostitution? If not why not? After all it is consenting and makes money? Or is there more than just that at stake?

 

 

The end word for me would be how she felt about it. I personally see sex as a normal body function, like defecation or sneezing, except it is more fun. But we have the weight of all the moralising and religiosity and prudishness and displaced frustration that has grown up around it for the past few thousand years. All this baggage has distorted a perfectly natural thing that we are all born with.

 

I love my cats, I really do. I have a very strong bond with them. But I don't have sex them. I believe sex and love are different things that have got tangled up together to the detriment of both. Human beings are physical creatures.  If you love someone having sex with them is a natural expression of that. But it is not something so intrinsically special that it can only be indulged in after you have 'fallen in love' and gone through a bunch of rituals. Anyone can sneeze. Anyone can have sex. What is the big deal? Are there not people who truly love each other but never have sex? If so, can there not be people who always have sex but don't love each other at all? Or who also have sex with people they don't love?

 

If I was very close to someone, such as a daughter, and she genuinely wanted to be a prostitute for whatever reason, and she was happy with it and not damaged by the inevitable social opprobrium, then I do not think I would have a problem with it. I think anyone who would have a problem just has a problem with sex. 

 

I also have enormous respect for the work you have done in India. That takes real courage and commitment. It cannot be applauded loudly enough. I couldn't do it and that makes you a better person than I am. But I still believe the women you worked with were victims because of the unfair social and economic circumstances imposed upon them, and the evil people who exploited and profited from them. I do not accept that they were victims because they were selling sex. I just don't make that connection.  

 

 

Fair call. One of the "difficultys" of being Christian is a belief in a spiritual dynamic to our beings - and for many of us, sex has a spiritual dynamic that has to be looked at. For me it is that connection between two souls  / spirits that adds the difficulty of seeing sex as a casual act. It's too intimate compared to sneezing. (although my wife would rather we 'made love' than i sneezed on her I'm sure <grin>)

 

As for India - it doesn't make me a better person - just one whose life took him down a different route.

 

I currently work part time at a community house after my big accident a couple of years ago. I get to give to a lot of people, making a difference in their lives and that too can be seen as noble. However i would have to say I get more out of it than I could ever give.

 

One of the guys is 67 and he spends time each week helping a lady with bad cerebral palsy participate in the mens shed - doing wood work. He confided to me he feels selfish doing it he reckons he gets more out of it than she does - the feel good factor. I told him he is welcome to be as selfish like that as he wants.

 

However it does highlight something - often we get more out of giving than we ever do out of receiving. I got more out of India than I'll ever give back. Ditto community work, working with behaviour kids, drug rehab etc. My life is far better for doing it. If that makes make me noble - so be it - but I reckon I'm just 'selfish'.

 

 

yep there is absolutely nothing casual church leaders covering up sex acts of there priests. As a non Christian my morals may be different to a Christian’s but doesn’t make them bad just different. What’s good for me might not be good for you, doesn’t make me immoral. Two of my best mates daughters are strippers, let’s face probably do a bit of prostitution as welll. Do not think of them any differently then before. I would probably go sit at the bar if I walked into an estate here they were working but probably more for there sake then mine. As far as I’m concerned if I think it’s ok To watch a strangers daughter strip I’m definitely don’t have a problem with someone I know.


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  #2007426 3-May-2018 19:21
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plod: yep there is absolutely nothing casual church leaders covering up sex acts of there priests. As a non Christian my morals may be different to a Christian’s but doesn’t make them bad just different. What’s good for me might not be good for you, doesn’t make me immoral. Two of my best mates daughters are strippers, let’s face probably do a bit of prostitution as welll. Do not think of them any differently then before. I would probably go sit at the bar if I walked into an estate here they were working but probably more for there sake then mine. As far as I’m concerned if I think it’s ok To watch a strangers daughter strip I’m definitely don’t have a problem with someone I know.

 

Your reply does raise a question - why do we put barriers around age of consent if it is not immoral and both parties consent? If sex is truly just as natural as sneezing then why have we developed laws around it? 

 

Take Christianity out of the equation and most of the world sees sex as more than a natural act (on par with sneezing) or an a-moral act. Pretty much every level of society across pretty much every culture and across every known historical time frame has seen sex as more than an a-moral act or natural act.

 

Classical greek poly-theistic society had strong opinions about the morality and exclusivity of sex. Ditto Middle Eastern culture (pre Islam), Bhuddist influenced Asia, Hindu influenced Asia, Pantheisitc Papua New guinea, and almost any other society I can think of and reference. Take away the Bible, Judaism and any other influence from mono-theisitc descendents of Abraham and you still see much the same taboos and 'ethics' at play.

 

To the greeks, romans, babalonians, phonecians, cananites, amorites, and other tribes that those societies descended from sex was not a casual act but an act of worship and marriage protected by laws. financial prostitution existed but was not seen as natural but as a shameful act.

 

so - if sex is truly just as natural as sneezing then why have we developed laws around it? 


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2007462 3-May-2018 20:45
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The simple answer is sex is power. You see it in monkey hareems. As soon as there were organised communities, there were strictures on sexual conduct. This has nothing to do with religion or morality, everything to do with control.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2007463 3-May-2018 20:48
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kingdragonfly: My point about Bible verses is that children know about prostitution.

I would be shocked if a 12 year went up to their parents, and said "Mommy, I just learned a new word on Trademe: prostitute. What does it mean?"

My secondary point is if TradeMe and Seek wants to be family friendly, even the religious texts aren't family friendly.

 

Defintely not. Judah telling them to bring out his daughter in law and burn her to death is about as un family-friendly as it gets.

"Honour killing" in the Bible. Awful book. 





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  #2007491 3-May-2018 20:56
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nunz:

 

plod: yep there is absolutely nothing casual church leaders covering up sex acts of there priests. As a non Christian my morals may be different to a Christian’s but doesn’t make them bad just different. What’s good for me might not be good for you, doesn’t make me immoral. Two of my best mates daughters are strippers, let’s face probably do a bit of prostitution as welll. Do not think of them any differently then before. I would probably go sit at the bar if I walked into an estate here they were working but probably more for there sake then mine. As far as I’m concerned if I think it’s ok To watch a strangers daughter strip I’m definitely don’t have a problem with someone I know.

 

Your reply does raise a question - why do we put barriers around age of consent if it is not immoral and both parties consent? If sex is truly just as natural as sneezing then why have we developed laws around it? 

 

Take Christianity out of the equation and most of the world sees sex as more than a natural act (on par with sneezing) or an a-moral act. Pretty much every level of society across pretty much every culture and across every known historical time frame has seen sex as more than an a-moral act or natural act.

 

Classical greek poly-theistic society had strong opinions about the morality and exclusivity of sex. Ditto Middle Eastern culture (pre Islam), Bhuddist influenced Asia, Hindu influenced Asia, Pantheisitc Papua New guinea, and almost any other society I can think of and reference. Take away the Bible, Judaism and any other influence from mono-theisitc descendents of Abraham and you still see much the same taboos and 'ethics' at play.

 

To the greeks, romans, babalonians, phonecians, cananites, amorites, and other tribes that those societies descended from sex was not a casual act but an act of worship and marriage protected by laws. financial prostitution existed but was not seen as natural but as a shameful act.

 

so - if sex is truly just as natural as sneezing then why have we developed laws around it? 

 

 

Age restrictions have more to do with differences in power and / or maturity and sound judgement. 

People do things when young they later regret. I remember a girl in intermediate - 13 years old - who got pregnant by her 14yo boyfriend. I'm sure that wasn't a good idea.....though not "immoral" it was just not a good idea. 

That's the sort of thing that leads to age restrictions. 

Plus if an older person - male or female - engages in sex with a young teen......there is the issue around power and knowledge. Young kids need some protection so they can reach an age where they can make good decisions for themselves and not be coerced or manipulated or just be dumb in the moment....





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  #2007518 3-May-2018 21:40
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nunz:

 

Your reply does raise a question - why do we put barriers around age of consent if it is not immoral and both parties consent? If sex is truly just as natural as sneezing then why have we developed laws around it? 

 

 

As a high school teacher at a girls school age of consent has nothing to do with religious morality but maturity.  Sure it isn't a perfect line in the sand but there needs to be one.  For some people it should be higher and others lower but it generally works without having to bring god into it.







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  #2007520 3-May-2018 21:50
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Every soldier who died was a son or daughter.

I rarely hear someone arguing against sex workers arguing against soldiers.

There are pacifists, but they seem a lot less vocal than people preaching against consensual adult sex.

In the words of music artist Edwin Starr

"War, huh, Good god.
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing"




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  #2007622 4-May-2018 09:17
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It's funny society's twisted thoughts on what's OK.

A cowboy can shoot down an American Indian and it's OK for children to watch.

It's not OK even to imply sex though: A cowboy walks into an tepee holding hands with a smiling American Indian






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  #2007625 4-May-2018 09:29
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nunz:

plod: yep there is absolutely nothing casual church leaders covering up sex acts of there priests. As a non Christian my morals may be different to a Christian’s but doesn’t make them bad just different. What’s good for me might not be good for you, doesn’t make me immoral. Two of my best mates daughters are strippers, let’s face probably do a bit of prostitution as welll. Do not think of them any differently then before. I would probably go sit at the bar if I walked into an estate here they were working but probably more for there sake then mine. As far as I’m concerned if I think it’s ok To watch a strangers daughter strip I’m definitely don’t have a problem with someone I know.


Your reply does raise a question - why do we put barriers around age of consent if it is not immoral and both parties consent? If sex is truly just as natural as sneezing then why have we developed laws around it? 


Take Christianity out of the equation and most of the world sees sex as more than a natural act (on par with sneezing) or an a-moral act. Pretty much every level of society across pretty much every culture and across every known historical time frame has seen sex as more than an a-moral act or natural act.


Classical greek poly-theistic society had strong opinions about the morality and exclusivity of sex. Ditto Middle Eastern culture (pre Islam), Bhuddist influenced Asia, Hindu influenced Asia, Pantheisitc Papua New guinea, and almost any other society I can think of and reference. Take away the Bible, Judaism and any other influence from mono-theisitc descendents of Abraham and you still see much the same taboos and 'ethics' at play.


To the greeks, romans, babalonians, phonecians, cananites, amorites, and other tribes that those societies descended from sex was not a casual act but an act of worship and marriage protected by laws. financial prostitution existed but was not seen as natural but as a shameful act.


so - if sex is truly just as natural as sneezing then why have we developed laws around it? 

sex takes two too tango. Sneezing doesn’t



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  #2007772 4-May-2018 12:31
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Sex can be one or more than two, depending on how you define it.

According to this Christian, gay sex doesn't exist, which explains a lot around Catholic priests ;)

https://biblicalsexualpurity.com/forums/topic/what-is-sex/

“Sex: a divinely ordained emotional physical activity of bodily union between a husband and his wife for the purpose of procreation and mutual pleasure, through which they become one flesh.

We can also say that sex is any activity between a man and a woman that causes full sexual arousal and gives sexual satisfaction, which may or may not include sexual intercourse.”

Check him out (I'm not making this up) on BS purity TV.

It contains such greats as "Warning from God: Virgins' special assignment"

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4hLFle-ArkkOrYolR1yyUw


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  #2007963 4-May-2018 16:31
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Linuxluver:

 

kingdragonfly: My point about Bible verses is that children know about prostitution.

I would be shocked if a 12 year went up to their parents, and said "Mommy, I just learned a new word on Trademe: prostitute. What does it mean?"

My secondary point is if TradeMe and Seek wants to be family friendly, even the religious texts aren't family friendly.

 

Defintely not. Judah telling them to bring out his daughter in law and burn her to death is about as un family-friendly as it gets.

"Honour killing" in the Bible. Awful book. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I follow your logic.

 

The Bible often records the history of what happened. In this case t doesn't say that was God's will or what should be done. It is an unusually honest document when it comes to recording the flaws of its characters. 

 

The bible has several types of literature - and the story you reference is in an historical book (Genesis), not a poetical (Psalms) , or law giving (e.g Dueteronomy) or instructional (like  1Corinthians). Saying it is an awful book for recording an act of shame, is like saying the newspaper is an awful book as it records bad things that happen.

 

The alternative is it lies and makes everything look like it is all roses and daisys. THat IMHO, would make it an awful book.

 

 


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  #2007965 4-May-2018 16:33
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Linuxluver:

 

Age restrictions have more to do with differences in power and / or maturity and sound judgement. 

People do things when young they later regret. I remember a girl in intermediate - 13 years old - who got pregnant by her 14yo boyfriend. I'm sure that wasn't a good idea.....though not "immoral" it was just not a good idea. 

That's the sort of thing that leads to age restrictions. 

Plus if an older person - male or female - engages in sex with a young teen......there is the issue around power and knowledge. Young kids need some protection so they can reach an age where they can make good decisions for themselves and not be coerced or manipulated or just be dumb in the moment....

 

 

And yet we can wipe the nose of a baby that sneezes or hold hands with a child who cares for us. if sex is just a physical act like sneezing - then why the age restrictions. you are making my argument for me.


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  #2007978 4-May-2018 17:18
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He already explained the age restriction, on the very post you quoted.





 

 

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