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  Reply # 894180 11-Sep-2013 11:56
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also google are really trying to come up with some great ideas like google glasses (sure a gimmick now, but in a few years could be very cool). and there are rumors of a android gaming console which could use google glasses.

plus google tv (which should just be replaced with android, no clue why they have 2 different OSs (3 if you include chromeos)).

so google are doing some amazing things, getting the same OS (or very similar OS with googletv) in many different devices that can easily talk to each other and use the same hardware (google glasses).

with google tv, you will have a game console built into your tv (when it finally gets down here, and into more tvs, but clearly its the way to go), you will be able to run loads of apps (sure not all designed for tv, but can be adapted, or controlled via phone/tablet/glasses) etc.

so dont argue theres nothing else they can do, theres lots they can do.

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  Reply # 894184 11-Sep-2013 11:59
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kbkiwi: 

"2) 64bit Processor? This is jargon, what does it do that previous generation iPhones didn't, or how does this make the phone "faster" - I bet you, once this is released my S4 will still win with almost every benchmark."

Pretty sure people say this every year with some variation of "what doesn't it do that last years phone doesn't" etc. The s4 was barely faster than the iPhone 5, so its going to struggle mightily against the 2x faster iPhone 5S



Most independent benchmarking suites put the S4 at about twice the performance of the 5, so it's more likely that the 5s will bring parity back. Of course, benchmarks don't always reflect real-world usage or user impression (for example, you can stick different OSes on the same desktop PC, and get vastly different user experiences in terms of responsiveness etc), but from a raw power perspective, the S4 stomps the iphone 5, so doubling that speed really will just mean the 5s is now in the same ballpark. I suspect it's the ARMv8 architecture that allows is to do so despite still having fewer cores than the S4.

At the end of the day, all the current (and impending) top-tier phones (Iphone 5/5s, Galaxy S4, HTC One etc) have ample processing power for the majority of users for their current functionality. Imho, it's not until we get more, new functionality added in that processor power really needs to see another spike.

I'm mostly disappointed at the lack of RAM (1GB still!), lack of HD screen (640x1136 isn't even 720p, let alone 1080p), and lack of ac wifi (or at least, lack of saying it has it).




Windows 7 x64 // i5-3570K // 16GB DDR3-1600 // GTX660Ti 2GB // Samsung 830 120GB SSD // OCZ Agility4 120GB SSD // Samsung U28D590D @ 3840x2160 & Asus PB278Q @ 2560x1440
Samsung Galaxy S5 SM-G900I w/Spark

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 894195 11-Sep-2013 12:10
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reven:
wireless charging, larger display, better keyboard (swift key, or do they already do this?), more personalised phone (widgets, live tiles), support open protocols (miracast etc, so I can screenshare my phone with a tv I already own and dont need another device to do so).

if the phones arent changing all that much and they're running out of things they can do, then why not start lowering the price?  charging the same each year for something that isn't keep up, whats the point?

I use to love apple, they were the market leaders, do some really cool things.  they've just gone stale. 


The thing is with Apple is they have one phone (except for the 5C now) and that's always been their thing. All the things you listed have been introduced by different manufacturers at different times on different phone lines.

But seriously, what's market leading about:

 

Wireless charging - you need a mat and can only charge it there, it's not like it charges over a cell phone network or wifi...
Large display - I don't see how that as market leading when there are so many options available
Keyboard - I think thats personal preference in most cases
Personalised phone - well you have Windows Phone, Android or Apple to choose from (each with a variety of phones)
Open protocols - I can give you that, but Apple makes no secret they want you using their products and they play nicely together

My point is nothing has been released by anyone this year by one manufacturer in one phone that changes the game in a massive way. If you want freedom, personalisation etc go Android or Windows Phone (which is really a mixture of Android and iOS).

If Apple put in NFC, wireless charging, made the screen bigger (which I actually do want) then they will be accused of catching up. If they introduce something new they will be accused of being property or the technology having existed before (of course fingerprint readers existed before!).


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  Reply # 894196 11-Sep-2013 12:11
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Inphinity: Most independent benchmarking suites put the S4 at about twice the performance of the 5, so it's more likely that the 5s will bring parity back.


Of course the S4 is nearly 4 months old now, and Samsung seem to be on a faster device cycle that Apple - so it might only be another 6 months until we see the S5 - which will almost certainly overtake performance again.




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  Reply # 894201 11-Sep-2013 12:22
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reven: also google are really trying to come up with some great ideas like google glasses (sure a gimmick now, but in a few years could be very cool). and there are rumors of a android gaming console which could use google glasses.

plus google tv (which should just be replaced with android, no clue why they have 2 different OSs (3 if you include chromeos)).

so google are doing some amazing things, getting the same OS (or very similar OS with googletv) in many different devices that can easily talk to each other and use the same hardware (google glasses).

with google tv, you will have a game console built into your tv (when it finally gets down here, and into more tvs, but clearly its the way to go), you will be able to run loads of apps (sure not all designed for tv, but can be adapted, or controlled via phone/tablet/glasses) etc.

so dont argue theres nothing else they can do, theres lots they can do.


I'm not suggesting there is nothing they can do but this was a phone release. There are already rumours about an Apple TV upgrade although I'm the first to admit they have been slow to capitalise on this device. The TV thing is complicated though. It will only work with decent content and no matter what Google or Apple release it will be gimped here for content.

And Google are well known for throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks. That's fine and it works for them. Apple tend to and appear to be more considered in their innovation and what they implement. I think that is ok too.

As for glass, not a fan. If it brings amazing ideas and technology great. But right now, lame.

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  Reply # 894204 11-Sep-2013 12:24
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kbkiwi: you guys are all crazy if you don't think the 5S is exciting.

1st 64 Bit chip in a smartphone
1st reliable fingerprint scanner
dedicated motion chip
all iWork & iLife apps now included for free (previously cost $60 for them from App store).




" 1st 64 Bit chip in a smartphone"   How much memory does the fone have??  More than 4 Gig.??
 " 1st reliable fingerprint scanner"  I remember the crappy ones on laptops a couple of years ago.  I don't expect this to be any better.

Personally it's an underwhelm even for me..





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  Reply # 894206 11-Sep-2013 12:28
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ajobbins:
Inphinity: Most independent benchmarking suites put the S4 at about twice the performance of the 5, so it's more likely that the 5s will bring parity back.


Of course the S4 is nearly 4 months old now, and Samsung seem to be on a faster device cycle that Apple - so it might only be another 6 months until we see the S5 - which will almost certainly overtake performance again.


If that happens that will be quite insane. I don't know what people do on their phones that needs this much juice! Soon you will just need a wireless monitor, keyboard and mouse and you'll be playing the desktop version of Battlefield 4 on your phone!

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  Reply # 894208 11-Sep-2013 12:29
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kbkiwi: 

"1) Fingerprint scanner, bet I can use a gummy bear* to unlock the phone still, it's a gimmick."

good luck with your video (probably worth googling Sub-epidermal scanning before you start dissing the Apple fingerprint tech, it doesn't use a surface print)


Fingerprint scanning is not foolproof, no matter what they say there will always be a way around this, again, it's just marketing. I still bet a gummy bear will work.


"2) 64bit Processor? This is jargon, what does it do that previous generation iPhones didn't, or how does this make the phone "faster" - I bet you, once this is released my S4 will still win with almost every benchmark."

Pretty sure people say this every year with some variation of "what doesn't it do that last years phone doesn't" etc. The s4 was barely faster than the iPhone 5, so its going to struggle mightily against the 2x faster iPhone 5S


Actually, the S4 and HTC One are both just over 2x more powerful than the iPhone 5, if Apples claims are correct it might bring it up to par but in reality, it's still a small upgrade and 64bit doesn't add anything more.


"3) Dedicated motion chip, again, jargon, phones have been doing this for years, processors don't have to fully "wake" to do tasks, they can wake a single core at 100MHz to do it so again, marketing."

A dedicated low power motion chip is far more battery efficient than anything that can be done from a main core - its ridiculous to argue it isn't.


The power draw is so insignificant when this happens it's not even worth mentioning, the "Motion Chip" still needs to wake the main processor to talk on OS level, it's still marketing and the battery savings from this would be very little if nothing in compared to waking up a single core at a very low clock speed to process the same tasks. I know this, I've done electrical engineering.


"4) iWork and iLife, Android and iOS has had this for years with "Google Drive" + there's a myriad of other apps available able to do the same tasks, might not look "as pretty" but they still work the same. Would you pay $100 extra in a phone for this alone when the apps separate are about $20?" 

I agree the iWork apps are of dubious value on a phone (but having the functionality if needed is only a good thing) but on the other hand iPhoto & iMovie are hugely useful on iPhones and run blocks around any web based solution.


I agree, but you still didn't answer the "would you really pay $100 extra just for this" part.

It's fine you worship Apple products, you're allowed your own opinion, but it's not worth justifying why it's better than any other phone, it all comes down to Apple's standard marketing. What everyone else and I am getting to is it's still a very small upgrade in comparison to the old iPhone 5 when other phone manufactures are working harder to put value into their phones, the S4 and HTC One have video editing, document editing, arguably better cameras and other features that in most customers eyes would appear to be better value for money. We can all admit Apple has lost it's touch with it's customers, I've got Wireless Charging and NFC in my device which are incredibly handy also.

The above features simply ain't worth paying $1029 for, but nobody is stopping you from buying it.




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  Reply # 894213 11-Sep-2013 12:45
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michaelmurfy: 

...the S4 and HTC One have video editing


Do you mean baked in or have the ability to edit any video because iOS has had video editing since 2010. I may sound like a blind Apple follower but I'm not really, I just feel with all smart phones there is very little separating them from each other and the things that do like NFC, screen size etc are not features that would make me pay >$800 for a new phone. Apple included. That is why I still have a 3 year old phone.

I bet the next Samsung, HTC etc that comes out will be the same.

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  Reply # 894214 11-Sep-2013 12:47
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Has to be one of the most underwhelming updates ever by Apple. No ipod updates either apart from a colour update. I don't know why anyone world want a 5c phone over an iPhone 5, if you want a plastic backed phone you would go for a S4 which is probably cheaper. I fail to understand who the market is for that coloured plastic backed phone which isn't much cheaper than the 5s. If people want a coloured back they would buy a cover, which they will probably need anyway. They must make larger margins on the 5c than the 5, as the 5 is no longer being sold, but they still have the 4s which is ancient. Normally the 4s would get replaced by the 5 after this sort of update, but I suspect the difference between the 5s and 5 is so small that people would just buy the 5 if it saves them money. Bundling previously paid software sounds to me more of desperation as the other updates from a user perspective are pretty under whelming. What happened to a new ipads, guessing there is another keynote later on the year. What happened to the iwatch or even apple TV. Their products are just starting to look dated and if they aren't careful they could become another nokia.

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  Reply # 894228 11-Sep-2013 13:02
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mattwnz: Has to be one of the most underwhelming updates ever by Apple. No ipod updates either apart from a colour update. I don't know why anyone world want a 5c phone over an iPhone 5, if you want a plastic backed phone you would go for a S4 which is probably cheaper. Bundling previously paid software sounds to me more of desperation as the other updates from a user perspective are pretty under whelming. What happened to a new ipads, guessing there is another keynote later on the year. What happened to the iwatch or even apple TV. Their products are just starting to look dated and if they aren't careful they could become another nokia.


I think there is one in October? But yeah, pretty boring really. I didn't even bother reading the rumours except for pictures of what it would look like so I expected more features but that was pretty thin. I think Apple need to move from a 2 year cycle to maybe a 1 year re-design cycle? This is exactly the same as the 3GS and the 4s updates so I din't expect much. Apple's focus is on iOS 7 this year and I expected more features being revealed and it being available today. That would have been enough.

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  Reply # 894278 11-Sep-2013 14:17
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Cant remember if I mentioned it in my earlier post, but would have been happy if they just fixed syncing outlook all-day events with iTunes/iDevice.

Mind you, have been watching Nasa TV on the 4s. Considering in 1969 no-one would have thought that some decades later one would be able to watch live video of inside the international space station as the crew transition to the re-entry vehicle (I think re-entry is in about 15mins).


Out of interest with 64 bit, memory isn't really an issue as it is just a for of cache now and one can use an SSD for a similar effect. What is important about 64 bit is the ability to re-purpose registers and all of that fancy stuff for backwards compatibility etc.

Still would like complete MP3 ringtones though, I used to have an old Motorola Krzr that did that. One would think with ones music library loaded onto the phone it would be an option.




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  Reply # 894285 11-Sep-2013 14:21
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sdav:
mattwnz: Has to be one of the most underwhelming updates ever by Apple. No ipod updates either apart from a colour update. I don't know why anyone world want a 5c phone over an iPhone 5, if you want a plastic backed phone you would go for a S4 which is probably cheaper. Bundling previously paid software sounds to me more of desperation as the other updates from a user perspective are pretty under whelming. What happened to a new ipads, guessing there is another keynote later on the year. What happened to the iwatch or even apple TV. Their products are just starting to look dated and if they aren't careful they could become another nokia.


I think there is one in October? But yeah, pretty boring really. I didn't even bother reading the rumours except for pictures of what it would look like so I expected more features but that was pretty thin. I think Apple need to move from a 2 year cycle to maybe a 1 year re-design cycle? This is exactly the same as the 3GS and the 4s updates so I din't expect much. Apple's focus is on iOS 7 this year and I expected more features being revealed and it being available today. That would have been enough.


Not only boring but also not great overall. The 5c was supposed to be a budget iPhone which people thought would be around that $500 nz mark, but it looks like it will be closer to 1000.That is for a phone that is essentially a year old, as it is basically an iPhone 5 with a plastic case. I also think it looks ugly, it is like they intentional made it look cheap to push people to the 5s which is a very nice looking phone. There is no doubt I would pay 100 more for the 5s over the 5c.

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  Reply # 894296 11-Sep-2013 14:41
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mattwnz:
sdav:
mattwnz: Has to be one of the most underwhelming updates ever by Apple. No ipod updates either apart from a colour update. I don't know why anyone world want a 5c phone over an iPhone 5, if you want a plastic backed phone you would go for a S4 which is probably cheaper. Bundling previously paid software sounds to me more of desperation as the other updates from a user perspective are pretty under whelming. What happened to a new ipads, guessing there is another keynote later on the year. What happened to the iwatch or even apple TV. Their products are just starting to look dated and if they aren't careful they could become another nokia.


I think there is one in October? But yeah, pretty boring really. I didn't even bother reading the rumours except for pictures of what it would look like so I expected more features but that was pretty thin. I think Apple need to move from a 2 year cycle to maybe a 1 year re-design cycle? This is exactly the same as the 3GS and the 4s updates so I din't expect much. Apple's focus is on iOS 7 this year and I expected more features being revealed and it being available today. That would have been enough.


Not only boring but also not great overall. The 5c was supposed to be a budget iPhone which people thought would be around that $500 nz mark, but it looks like it will be closer to 1000.That is for a phone that is essentially a year old, as it is basically an iPhone 5 with a plastic case. I also think it looks ugly, it is like they intentional made it look cheap to push people to the 5s which is a very nice looking phone. There is no doubt I would pay 100 more for the 5s over the 5c.


Yeah surely the 5S is going to consume some of 5C's market with prices so close. I agree, I thought the price would be a lot lower. My plan was to perhaps get a 5C but I won't get either now! Will wait for the 6.

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  Reply # 894342 11-Sep-2013 16:23
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sdav: 
Yeah surely the 5S is going to consume some of 5C's market with prices so close. I agree, I thought the price would be a lot lower. My plan was to perhaps get a 5C but I won't get either now! Will wait for the 6.


I you can get the 5 on a runout price for the same as the 5c, it is probably a good deal, as it is largely the same phone with a better shell. But it does make me wonder who the 5c is actually marketed to at that price. I presume that the price on it will have to drop, as using cheaper materials, they would be making better profits on it anyway. These thigns still have such tiny amounts of storage in them. The 5 iphone 5s maybe 40 time fater than the iphone 1, but the lowest model only comes with 4 times as much storage. There was  a 16GB iphone 1, while the lowest iphone 5s (7th gen) has 16GB, and a max storage of 64GB. What happened to a 128Gb iphone? 

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