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# 138079 19-Dec-2013 11:53
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/30008163/apple-caught-lying-to-australian-customers

Thoughts on this?
I had an Ipad replaced under the Consumer Guarantees Act a few weeks ago, for screen bleed.
And a week later my iphone was replaced under warranty for failing the battery test.

Does this mean I would have been entitled to a refund instead of replacement?
(I know it says Australian law, but they appear to be the same in terms of repair/replace/refund)

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  # 954739 19-Dec-2013 12:03
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Here's the Apple NZ's Statuory Warranty information: http://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/




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  # 954742 19-Dec-2013 12:08
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If it isn't a serious fault, they are entitled to decide the remedy (repair/replace/refund). If they refuse to repair the item or takes more than a reasonable length of time to do so, then you're entitled to a refund/replacement/cost of repairing elsewhere.

If it's a serious fault or cannot be fixed, you are entitled to a refund/replacement/partial repalcement and keep the goods.

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/law/consumer-guarantees-act/got-a-problem-with-goods

 
 
 
 


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  # 954743 19-Dec-2013 12:10
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Only if they couldn't fix the fault (which it appears they have).

Have a read of the Consumer Guarantees Act

specifically section 18

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  # 954749 19-Dec-2013 12:18
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I don't believe they can replace a new one with a refurbished one, as a refurbished one is worth less and potentially a lower resale value. So you may as well just buy a refurbished one to begin with and save on it.
Have people in NZ had problems getting their idevice fixed or replaced by apple directly?

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  # 954786 19-Dec-2013 12:54
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esawers:
I had an Ipad replaced under the Consumer Guarantees Act a few weeks ago, for screen bleed.


Slightly off topic but how out of warranty was your device? My Samsung has some kind of screen bleed (its about 18 months old)



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  # 954792 19-Dec-2013 13:04
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It was 16 months old (4 months out of warranty)
They were very friendly, before I had even mentioned the CGA they were saying 'Don't worry we will definelty look after you'
Looks like the Australian ruling is indicating up to two years old would be covered.

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  # 954830 19-Dec-2013 13:56
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RunningMan: Only if they couldn't fix the fault (which it appears they have).

Have a read of the Consumer Guarantees Act

specifically section 18



You contradict yourself by referring to the actual act :) 

Quoting.. 
Where the failure cannot be remedied or is of a substantial character within the meaning of section 21, the consumer may—
(a)subject to section 20, reject the goods

and, substantial character defn.

the goods would not have been acquired by a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the nature and extent of the failure; 

So, you can reject the goods if you wouldn't have purchased knowing the seriousness of the fault.


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  # 954841 19-Dec-2013 14:14
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surfisup1000: You contradict yourself by referring to the actual act :) 

Quoting.. 
Where the failure cannot be remedied or is of a substantial character within the meaning of section 21, the consumer may—
(a)subject to section 20, reject the goods

and, substantial character defn.

the goods would not have been acquired by a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the nature and extent of the failure; 

So, you can reject the goods if you wouldn't have purchased knowing the seriousness of the fault.



I was referring to the specific question that the OP asked. i.e. an entitlement to refund rather than replacement for the 16 month old device that developed screen bleed, or the device that failed the battery test.

IANAL but would think it unlikely (although not impossible) that that would meet the requirements of section 21, so I would have thought that would come back to section 18(2) where an opportunity to remedy must be given first (and in the OP's case, it has been remedied), and only then can the goods be rejected (refund).

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  # 954885 19-Dec-2013 14:51
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surfisup1000:
RunningMan: Only if they couldn't fix the fault (which it appears they have).

Have a read of the Consumer Guarantees Act

specifically section 18



You contradict yourself by referring to the actual act :) 

Quoting.. 
Where the failure cannot be remedied or is of a substantial character within the meaning of section 21, the consumer may—
(a)subject to section 20, reject the goods

and, substantial character defn.

the goods would not have been acquired by a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the nature and extent of the failure; 

So, you can reject the goods if you wouldn't have purchased knowing the seriousness of the fault.


I don't believe that is the correct interpretation. No one would knowingly purchase goods with any fault, would they? So any fault could be considered to be of a substantial character.

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  # 954902 19-Dec-2013 15:18
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bazzer: 
I don't believe that is the correct interpretation. No one would knowingly purchase goods with any fault, would they? So any fault could be considered to be of a substantial character.


You are right -- but, how else can you interpret this? It seems pretty clear. 




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  # 954918 19-Dec-2013 15:33
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I had 3G on my iPad2 (purchased personally from Apple Online store) stop working, went around and around with Apple support hard resetting and trying multiple different SIMs while the device was in 1 year warranty, they send me a box to send it back to Australia

By the time I sent it in back to Australia it must have been out of the 1 year warranty as they just couriered the broken iPad back to me

Rang them up again, got shunted around onto a "product specialist" who just would not budge from the 1 year warranty thing. Complained, moaned, asked them for their NZ address to serve disputes tribunal papers on, nothing forthcoming

Got sick of it hung up, chucked the iPad in a cupboard and forgot about it

fast forward 2 years later till this morning

Rung up Apple support and immediately started quiting the NZ Consumer Guarantees Act and the Aussie equivalent and suddenly their tune had changed and they will fix this

Good on them for finally coming to the table but what a bloody hassle, it took them to be forced into it by the Aussie consumer protection laws

Apple do an amazing job of keeping up their margins, making people love them with their alluring brand, while shafting them and tricking them into buying AppleCare extended warranties at the same time


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  # 954920 19-Dec-2013 15:33
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surfisup1000:
bazzer: 
I don't believe that is the correct interpretation. No one would knowingly purchase goods with any fault, would they? So any fault could be considered to be of a substantial character.


You are right -- but, how else can you interpret this? It seems pretty clear.


Presumably you are looking at section 21(a) - to me it implies that it applies to a fault that was present at the time of purchase, and wasn't pointed out to the buyer, as opposed to a fault which developed later.

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  # 954922 19-Dec-2013 15:34
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chiefie: Here's the Apple NZ's Statuory Warranty information: http://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/


interestingly this only recently changed to make any mention of the NZ CGA

prior to that it was just a standard 1 year warranty and tough sh*t

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  # 954926 19-Dec-2013 15:38
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nathan:
chiefie: Here's the Apple NZ's Statuory Warranty information: http://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/


interestingly this only recently changed to make any mention of the NZ CGA

prior to that it was just a standard 1 year warranty and tough sh*t


Hmmm, i had an apple product repaired outside warranty previously. 

although, rather than saying 'under cga you are enititled...' , they said, 'becuase you are a good customer, this time we will repair'.  This was after i explained the CGA to the nice support man in india. He had no idea. 



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  # 954933 19-Dec-2013 15:48
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nathan:
chiefie: Here's the Apple NZ's Statuory Warranty information: http://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/


interestingly this only recently changed to make any mention of the NZ CGA

prior to that it was just a standard 1 year warranty and tough sh*t


I found the Apple NZ's Statutory Warranty few months back, and I think it was around the time when iPhone 5s/iOS7 was mentioned, and the link was very visible in their products' pages (at the very bottom spot).




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