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  # 1384967 10-Sep-2015 13:25
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richms:

Displayport gives a nice clear compression free, lag free image on multiple screens, or 5k on a high res screen, just like a desktop PC.

Wireless mirroring works for showing powerpoint presentations and movies. Cant work on it because of lag, cant have dense text on it because of compression. Also ok for mirroring gameplay so you can show it to others or capture it on a HDMI capture box, but you cant play it on the mirrored ipad to appletv output because of the lag.

And the apple HDMI output from lightning thing sucks hard too. No comparison to native video output.


DisplayPort also does true 4K @ 60Hz. WiDi/Miracast has 2 big advantages over official Apple TV mirroring solution via another apple device.

1. Extended screen. You can use the second screen (TV or PC monitor) that you are mirroring to as an secondary monitor.
2. No power point required on the wall. Like the official Surface adapter from MS, you plug it into a USB port on the TV or monitor and it powers the WiDi/Miracast adapter so it's also very portable to carry around.

Edit - Not including new HDMI spec 2.0 for 4K @60Hz




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

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  # 1384968 10-Sep-2015 13:25
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I'll just jump in here to address a couple things

Air parrot on Windows does not support hardware acceleration - it's a total laggy CPU hog on Windows.

Microsoft and their hardware providers can't seem to get Miracast right.  There I've tried tonnes of TV's with Miracast built in, that support Miracast great from Android, but do not connect when trying from a Windows machine.  The point is that Miracast is that you shouldn't need to buy a stick from Microsoft to use it, it should just work...but it doesn't.








 
 
 
 


gzt

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  # 1384970 10-Sep-2015 13:29
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IPad is a long way ahead of Surface in some areas so it is not surprising Apple will try to maintain and maximise that lead. The two are not comparable but there is convergence occurring in the market and risks of being left behind. Microsoft released Office for iPad Pro so they recognise that and try to keep up.

There are many iOS devices under enterprise management and this will be an easy in for Apple to expand reach there.







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  # 1384971 10-Sep-2015 13:30
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Dairyxox:
It might be able to run heaps of legacy software, but font scaling can make applications look ugly, or if you don't scale, then they look teeny tiny.
iOS wins at being a touch input device primarily, with on screen items being the right size to touch etc, that's the benefit of a modern OS designed from the ground up for touch, and throwing out the legacy baggage.


Surprise - touch apps are designed to be used for touch devices. If someone builds a modern/touch version of a windows app well then guess what, it works great in tablet format.

Running desktop apps and trying to use them with touch is very hit and miss and is usually not much fun without a mouse/pen. 100% agree here. But this isn't a limitation of "legacy" Windows.

The difference is you can do whatever you want with a Surface Pro, including "legacy" apps like Photoshop and AutoCAD, or touch friendly versions. Or I can plug in an External monitor and you have a nice, powerful PC. Or I can plug in pretty much ANY USB device that has drivers to do pretty much anything.

Or you can spend US$1000 for an iPad and enjoy whatever apps are made available via the App Store. If that suits your use case, great. If you are lucky you can probably spend hundreds more on devices to let you do whatever else Apple approves of, using that one Thunderbolt port.

But don't start spouting rubbish about "modern" and "legacy" apps and operating systems when the issues you discuss revolve entirely around application design.



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  # 1384972 10-Sep-2015 13:33
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macuser: I'll just jump in here to address a couple things

Air parrot on Windows does not support hardware acceleration - it's a total laggy CPU hog on Windows.

Microsoft and their hardware providers can't seem to get Miracast right.  There I've tried tonnes of TV's with Miracast built in, that support Miracast great from Android, but do not connect when trying from a Windows machine.  The point is that Miracast is that you shouldn't need to buy a stick from Microsoft to use it, it should just work...but it doesn't.



The only semi decent miracast adapter I have had success with is the Netgear PTV3000 outside the official MS WiDi adapter. The official MS WiDi adapter suffers from no lag or random disconnection issues. I agree that WiDi/Miracast should just work being a standard but it seems like only MS is serious about getting it's implementation right outside Intel.





Do whatever you want to do man.

  

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  # 1384974 10-Sep-2015 13:36
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tdgeek:
blackjack17:
wasabi2k:
tdgeek: But a Surface Pro 3 costs a bunch more than an iPad Pro doesnt it? IPad Pro is a bit more than the regular 9.7 so seems quite good value.


Base iPad Pro - US$799
Base Surface Pro 3 - $US$799

The top spec iPad Pro is over US$1000 and has a single thunderbolt port.

The top spec Surface 3 Pro will cost more (i7, 512GB etc).

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/09/ipad-pro-vs-the-competition/?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget&ncid=rss_semi



The surface is only slightly smaller than the iPad 12 vs 12.9

The Surface also has the pen included
The keyboard on the iPad is more expensive
The Surface has usb, micro sd, and displayport.

Seems like the surface is much better value


How many apps has it got?   iPad has probably hundreds of thousands ,and everything, and it lighter, and screen a bit bigger
The issue is they are different devices, one is a tablet, the other is  hybrid. Tablet wise I feel the iPad is far superior, due to the app numbers
and its not a while lot more than the 9.7 iPad cost wise, so i feel its good value

A laptop is better value than the iPad as its got more ports, and so forth, but again, they are different devices


There are over 16 million .NET and Win32 applications being used every single month

every one of those runs on Surface, as well as websites with flash etc

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  # 1384975 10-Sep-2015 13:37
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wasabi2k:
Dairyxox:
It might be able to run heaps of legacy software, but font scaling can make applications look ugly, or if you don't scale, then they look teeny tiny.
iOS wins at being a touch input device primarily, with on screen items being the right size to touch etc, that's the benefit of a modern OS designed from the ground up for touch, and throwing out the legacy baggage.


Surprise - touch apps are designed to be used for touch devices. If someone builds a modern/touch version of a windows app well then guess what, it works great in tablet format.

Running desktop apps and trying to use them with touch is very hit and miss and is usually not much fun without a mouse/pen. 100% agree here. But this isn't a limitation of "legacy" Windows.

The difference is you can do whatever you want with a Surface Pro, including "legacy" apps like Photoshop and AutoCAD, or touch friendly versions. Or I can plug in an External monitor and you have a nice, powerful PC. Or I can plug in pretty much ANY USB device that has drivers to do pretty much anything.

Or you can spend US$1000 for an iPad and enjoy whatever apps are made available via the App Store. If that suits your use case, great. If you are lucky you can probably spend hundreds more on devices to let you do whatever else Apple approves of, using that one Thunderbolt port.

But don't start spouting rubbish about "modern" and "legacy" apps and operating systems when the issues you discuss revolve entirely around application design.




Its not rubbish, its true. What you say is also true, except you talk about using the tablet as a computer, with a screen and other input types.
The problem is legacy, and iOS doesn't suffer from it.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1384976 10-Sep-2015 13:43
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richms:
josephhinvest:
blackjack17:
Surface can stream to miracast and with airparrot ($10 from memory) you can stream to appletv


Thanks :) I only wrote that to refer to the Surface having a DisplayPort connection listed as an advantage, this makes it even less of a selling point, I would think.


Displayport gives a nice clear compression free, lag free image on multiple screens, or 5k on a high res screen, just like a desktop PC.

Wireless mirroring works for showing powerpoint presentations and movies. Cant work on it because of lag, cant have dense text on it because of compression. Also ok for mirroring gameplay so you can show it to others or capture it on a HDMI capture box, but you cant play it on the mirrored ipad to appletv output because of the lag.

And the apple HDMI output from lightning thing sucks hard too. No comparison to native video output.


I have no problems with lag using Miracast

The Miracast receiver that is (currently) the best is Actiontec Screenbeam Pro

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  # 1384981 10-Sep-2015 13:47
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wasabi2k:
Dairyxox:
It might be able to run heaps of legacy software, but font scaling can make applications look ugly, or if you don't scale, then they look teeny tiny.
iOS wins at being a touch input device primarily, with on screen items being the right size to touch etc, that's the benefit of a modern OS designed from the ground up for touch, and throwing out the legacy baggage.


Surprise - touch apps are designed to be used for touch devices. If someone builds a modern/touch version of a windows app well then guess what, it works great in tablet format.

Running desktop apps and trying to use them with touch is very hit and miss and is usually not much fun without a mouse/pen. 100% agree here. But this isn't a limitation of "legacy" Windows.

The difference is you can do whatever you want with a Surface Pro, including "legacy" apps like Photoshop and AutoCAD, or touch friendly versions. Or I can plug in an External monitor and you have a nice, powerful PC. Or I can plug in pretty much ANY USB device that has drivers to do pretty much anything.

Or you can spend US$1000 for an iPad and enjoy whatever apps are made available via the App Store. If that suits your use case, great. If you are lucky you can probably spend hundreds more on devices to let you do whatever else Apple approves of, using that one Thunderbolt port.




Because they are different devices. If I bought myself a Dodge Viper I can't compare that to an SUV. Or I could spend gazillions on stuff making my Viper SUV-able. But I wouldnt. If I wanted to run a business I'd buy a laptop, not a tablet. More to the point, I'd buy a full OS device. If i wanted a great consumption device, I'd buy an iPad, I wouldnt waste my time on a Windows or OSX touch tablet. the Surface is a hybrid, it serves a different use case than a consumption tablet.  

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  # 1384982 10-Sep-2015 13:49
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Dairyxox:
blackjack17:
tdgeek:
blackjack17:
wasabi2k:
tdgeek: But a Surface Pro 3 costs a bunch more than an iPad Pro doesnt it? IPad Pro is a bit more than the regular 9.7 so seems quite good value.


Base iPad Pro - US$799
Base Surface Pro 3 - $US$799

The top spec iPad Pro is over US$1000 and has a single thunderbolt port.

The top spec Surface 3 Pro will cost more (i7, 512GB etc).

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/09/ipad-pro-vs-the-competition/?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget&ncid=rss_semi



The surface is only slightly smaller than the iPad 12 vs 12.9

The Surface also has the pen included
The keyboard on the iPad is more expensive
The Surface has usb, micro sd, and displayport.

Seems like the surface is much better value


How many apps has it got?   iPad has probably hundreds of thousands ,and everything, and it lighter, and screen a bit bigger
The issue is they are different devices, one is a tablet, the other is  hybrid. Tablet wise I feel the iPad is far superior, due to the app numbers
and its not a while lot more than the 9.7 iPad cost wise, so i feel its good value

A laptop is better value than the iPad as its got more ports, and so forth, but again, they are different devices


The surface has every program ever written for x86.  Number of apps means nothing, its how useful the apps are.   

Weight wise it is 100 grams heavier but it is a year and a half old.

I think the really interesting comparison will be Surface pro 4 vs iPad pro. 


It might be able to run heaps of legacy software, but font scaling can make applications look ugly, or if you don't scale, then they look teeny tiny.
iOS wins at being a touch input device primarily, with on screen items being the right size to touch etc, that's the benefit of a modern OS designed from the ground up for touch, and throwing out the legacy baggage.



some of us love the legacy baggage

having a proper OS with proper multitasking
having a proper security subsystem with multiuser
having a USB port that I can plug in any UFD/camera/printer/headset/keyboard/mouse/serial devices etc
having a command prompt
having a OS that supports touch/mouse/type/pen
multimonitor and so on

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  # 1384983 10-Sep-2015 13:50
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Dairyxox:
wasabi2k:
Dairyxox:
It might be able to run heaps of legacy software, but font scaling can make applications look ugly, or if you don't scale, then they look teeny tiny.
iOS wins at being a touch input device primarily, with on screen items being the right size to touch etc, that's the benefit of a modern OS designed from the ground up for touch, and throwing out the legacy baggage.


Surprise - touch apps are designed to be used for touch devices. If someone builds a modern/touch version of a windows app well then guess what, it works great in tablet format.

Running desktop apps and trying to use them with touch is very hit and miss and is usually not much fun without a mouse/pen. 100% agree here. But this isn't a limitation of "legacy" Windows.

The difference is you can do whatever you want with a Surface Pro, including "legacy" apps like Photoshop and AutoCAD, or touch friendly versions. Or I can plug in an External monitor and you have a nice, powerful PC. Or I can plug in pretty much ANY USB device that has drivers to do pretty much anything.

Or you can spend US$1000 for an iPad and enjoy whatever apps are made available via the App Store. If that suits your use case, great. If you are lucky you can probably spend hundreds more on devices to let you do whatever else Apple approves of, using that one Thunderbolt port.

But don't start spouting rubbish about "modern" and "legacy" apps and operating systems when the issues you discuss revolve entirely around application design.




Its not rubbish, its true. What you say is also true, except you talk about using the tablet as a computer, with a screen and other input types.
The problem is legacy, and iOS doesn't suffer from it.


I agree and also iOS doesn't have the full apps that OSX or Windows does, so the iPad is out. Compare the iPad with other consumption tablets, dont compare it with a Surface, or a laptop, or a desktop, not unless they ONLY run modern apps.

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  # 1384984 10-Sep-2015 13:50
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I read somewhere that the iPad Pro is aimed at enterprise users, I can't see it seriously competing against a Surface Pro docked into a couple of big monitors, it will be a tablet that can pretend to be a laptop rather than a tablet that can be everything

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  # 1384988 10-Sep-2015 13:54
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macuser: I'll just jump in here to address a couple things

Air parrot on Windows does not support hardware acceleration - it's a total laggy CPU hog on Windows.

Microsoft and their hardware providers can't seem to get Miracast right.  There I've tried tonnes of TV's with Miracast built in, that support Miracast great from Android, but do not connect when trying from a Windows machine.  The point is that Miracast is that you shouldn't need to buy a stick from Microsoft to use it, it should just work...but it doesn't.









Actiontec Screenbeam Pro is the best Miracast receiver to purchase currently

I present using it all the time, I watch movies at home using it.  Its very reliable

Yes you could argue that is the benefit of the Apple ecosystem.  Its locked down, they have an extremely limited number of devices to support, so "everything works"

Obviously you pay for that  and you have not much choice

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  # 1384991 10-Sep-2015 13:58
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tdgeek:
Dairyxox:
wasabi2k:
Dairyxox:
It might be able to run heaps of legacy software, but font scaling can make applications look ugly, or if you don't scale, then they look teeny tiny.
iOS wins at being a touch input device primarily, with on screen items being the right size to touch etc, that's the benefit of a modern OS designed from the ground up for touch, and throwing out the legacy baggage.


Surprise - touch apps are designed to be used for touch devices. If someone builds a modern/touch version of a windows app well then guess what, it works great in tablet format.

Running desktop apps and trying to use them with touch is very hit and miss and is usually not much fun without a mouse/pen. 100% agree here. But this isn't a limitation of "legacy" Windows.

The difference is you can do whatever you want with a Surface Pro, including "legacy" apps like Photoshop and AutoCAD, or touch friendly versions. Or I can plug in an External monitor and you have a nice, powerful PC. Or I can plug in pretty much ANY USB device that has drivers to do pretty much anything.

Or you can spend US$1000 for an iPad and enjoy whatever apps are made available via the App Store. If that suits your use case, great. If you are lucky you can probably spend hundreds more on devices to let you do whatever else Apple approves of, using that one Thunderbolt port.

But don't start spouting rubbish about "modern" and "legacy" apps and operating systems when the issues you discuss revolve entirely around application design.




Its not rubbish, its true. What you say is also true, except you talk about using the tablet as a computer, with a screen and other input types.
The problem is legacy, and iOS doesn't suffer from it.


I agree and also iOS doesn't have the full apps that OSX or Windows does, so the iPad is out. Compare the iPad with other consumption tablets, dont compare it with a Surface, or a laptop, or a desktop, not unless they ONLY run modern apps.


But you can't dismiss the fact that the iPad Pro as a consumption device costs the same as a full featured Surface Pro 3 - which can also function as a consumption device.

gzt

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  # 1384997 10-Sep-2015 14:04
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The Pro is a good partner for iPhone if you run your life on iPhone already and sometimes want a bigger screen for deskwork. It simply cannot replace PC or osx. iPad pro is for existing iOS users to step up to.

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