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  # 1385003 10-Sep-2015 14:14
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nathan:
Dairyxox:
blackjack17:
tdgeek:
blackjack17:
wasabi2k:
tdgeek: But a Surface Pro 3 costs a bunch more than an iPad Pro doesnt it? IPad Pro is a bit more than the regular 9.7 so seems quite good value.


Base iPad Pro - US$799
Base Surface Pro 3 - $US$799

The top spec iPad Pro is over US$1000 and has a single thunderbolt port.

The top spec Surface 3 Pro will cost more (i7, 512GB etc).

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/09/ipad-pro-vs-the-competition/?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget&ncid=rss_semi



The surface is only slightly smaller than the iPad 12 vs 12.9

The Surface also has the pen included
The keyboard on the iPad is more expensive
The Surface has usb, micro sd, and displayport.

Seems like the surface is much better value


How many apps has it got?   iPad has probably hundreds of thousands ,and everything, and it lighter, and screen a bit bigger
The issue is they are different devices, one is a tablet, the other is  hybrid. Tablet wise I feel the iPad is far superior, due to the app numbers
and its not a while lot more than the 9.7 iPad cost wise, so i feel its good value

A laptop is better value than the iPad as its got more ports, and so forth, but again, they are different devices


The surface has every program ever written for x86.  Number of apps means nothing, its how useful the apps are.   

Weight wise it is 100 grams heavier but it is a year and a half old.

I think the really interesting comparison will be Surface pro 4 vs iPad pro. 


It might be able to run heaps of legacy software, but font scaling can make applications look ugly, or if you don't scale, then they look teeny tiny.
iOS wins at being a touch input device primarily, with on screen items being the right size to touch etc, that's the benefit of a modern OS designed from the ground up for touch, and throwing out the legacy baggage.



some of us love the legacy baggage

having a proper OS with proper multitasking
having a proper security subsystem with multiuser
having a USB port that I can plug in any UFD/camera/printer/headset/keyboard/mouse/serial devices etc
having a command prompt
having a OS that supports touch/mouse/type/pen
multimonitor and so on


So why is thread going on and on when we all appear to agree that a Surface is not a consumption based tablet and an iPad is not a full OS laptop replacement?

It's like arguing why can't I take my Viper to Mt Hutt skiing when you can if it was an SUV with chains??

How bizarre how bizarre (R.I.P.)



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  # 1385007 10-Sep-2015 14:24
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For those saying you can't compare iPad Pro to Surface Pro 3, I think it is a very relevant comparison.

The iPad Pro is being marketed as as a business device, and more business oriented than the iPad Air 2. To me it seems they are marketing it as more than a tablet.

As stated by others: similar size and weight, similar accessories (pen/pencil, keyboard cover), similar entry level price, marketed at the same segment.

Stating that it's not a fair comparison because one is a hybrid and one is a pure tablet doesn't make the comparison invalid - that is the whole point of the comparison, determining what each can do that the other can't.

 
 
 
 




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  # 1385009 10-Sep-2015 14:31
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wasabi2k: But you can't dismiss the fact that the iPad Pro as a consumption device costs the same as a full featured Surface Pro 3 - which can also function as a consumption device.


What he said.

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  # 1385011 10-Sep-2015 14:40
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Paul1977: For those saying you can't compare iPad Pro to Surface Pro 3, I think it is a very relevant comparison.

The iPad Pro is being marketed as as a business device, and more business oriented than the iPad Air 2. To me it seems they are marketing it as more than a tablet.

As stated by others: similar size and weight, similar accessories (pen/pencil, keyboard cover), similar entry level price, marketed at the same segment.

Stating that it's not a fair comparison because one is a hybrid and one is a pure tablet doesn't make the comparison invalid - that is the whole point of the comparison, determining what each can do that the other can't.


So, I can suggest that we also compare an iPad to an HP laptop, and a Macbook

There will be cars with similarities that have totally different capabilities

Business wise, if a company is using Apple's ecosystem, an iPad Pro would fit in there for temporary/partial use, given its integration. Its not like we are talking about running a business using iPads

I feel the capabilities are too far apart to compare

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  # 1385017 10-Sep-2015 14:44
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Paul1977:
wasabi2k: But you can't dismiss the fact that the iPad Pro as a consumption device costs the same as a full featured Surface Pro 3 - which can also function as a consumption device.


What he said.


So $56000 cars can be compared?  Sports car and an SUV?    It's about capability, not about cost.

gzt

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  # 1385019 10-Sep-2015 14:47
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tdgeek: So why is thread going on and on when we all appear to agree that a Surface is not a consumption based tablet and an iPad is not a full OS laptop replacement?

Because there is an official keyboard accessory ; ) and because MS Office Apps were demoed at launch. It is not a personal computer in any sense, but it is very clear where this fits in the market.



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  # 1385032 10-Sep-2015 15:05
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tdgeek:
Paul1977: For those saying you can't compare iPad Pro to Surface Pro 3, I think it is a very relevant comparison.

The iPad Pro is being marketed as as a business device, and more business oriented than the iPad Air 2. To me it seems they are marketing it as more than a tablet.

As stated by others: similar size and weight, similar accessories (pen/pencil, keyboard cover), similar entry level price, marketed at the same segment.

Stating that it's not a fair comparison because one is a hybrid and one is a pure tablet doesn't make the comparison invalid - that is the whole point of the comparison, determining what each can do that the other can't.


So, I can suggest that we also compare an iPad to an HP laptop, and a Macbook

There will be cars with similarities that have totally different capabilities

Business wise, if a company is using Apple's ecosystem, an iPad Pro would fit in there for temporary/partial use, given its integration. Its not like we are talking about running a business using iPads

I feel the capabilities are too far apart to compare


If you are only looking at buying one device, then yes, compare them all and decide what works best.

iPad Air does not have a full OS; but the trade off is that it is a lot smaller, lighter, and easy to use. A lot of the positives of the iPad Air are lost if looking at an iPad Pro.

The argument being made is that, since you are now looking at a device that is as big and heavy as a full hybrid, perhaps the full hybrid is a better choice.

 
 
 
 


gzt

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  # 1385035 10-Sep-2015 15:06
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  # 1385040 10-Sep-2015 15:10
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Paul1977:
wasabi2k: But you can't dismiss the fact that the iPad Pro as a consumption device costs the same as a full featured Surface Pro 3 - which can also function as a consumption device.


What he said.


Personally I think with the pen/keyboard accessories and the Pro name they are trying to say the iPad Pro is not just a consumption device and is more a full featured device which, in my head puts it in the same category as an x86 Surface. As a full feature device I just don't see how it could be better than something with a full blown OS such as the Surface. 



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  # 1385043 10-Sep-2015 15:14
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tdgeek:
Paul1977:
wasabi2k: But you can't dismiss the fact that the iPad Pro as a consumption device costs the same as a full featured Surface Pro 3 - which can also function as a consumption device.


What he said.


So $56000 cars can be compared?  Sports car and an SUV?    It's about capability, not about cost.


I assume in your analogy that the sports car is the iPad (can't make it up the snowing hill, but was never designed for that anyway) and the SUV is the Surface (can drive in a lot more places, but not as sleek and zippy as the sports car)? If so this comparison works very well if comparing the iPad Air 2 and Surface Pro 3, but is less valid when looking at the iPad Pro (which is more like a car with an SUV body, but still can't drive up the snowy hill).

Cost was mentioned, because it clearly puts the two devices as rivals. Put it this way, do you think many people will buy a Surface Pro AND and iPad Pro?



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  # 1385045 10-Sep-2015 15:19
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Also, I'm not bagging Apple - I have an iPhone 6 and an iPad Air 2.

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  # 1385046 10-Sep-2015 15:19
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gzt: IPad is a long way ahead of Surface in some areas so it is not surprising Apple will try to maintain and maximise that lead. The two are not comparable but there is convergence occurring in the market and risks of being left behind. Microsoft released Office for iPad Pro so they recognise that and try to keep up.

There are many iOS devices under enterprise management and this will be an easy in for Apple to expand reach there.








They are comparable in terms of Apple wanting a piece of the pro tablet market. In a way Apple is playing catchup in this market, as they like what Microsoft has done with the surface, so the ipad pro is a very similar device in terms of the typeof keyboard, pen and similar form factor. But windows 10 OS is pehaps a better OS for this sized device, than OS is. But Apple have for more tablet apps, windows has far more desktop one.  Apple have made a bit of a mistake in not combining OSX and IOS yet. APparently it is planned, but it is something microsoft has already done. So I think the apple ipad pro will feel quite crippled in terms of a production device compared to the surface. Liek others have said, it is like a surface rt (without the desktop ability the RT has), but with far more tablet apps. Apple are very lucky that so many developers have developed for the ipad, and that they got in first. That is the major problem with windows 10 and it's tablet  type apps. 

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  # 1385047 10-Sep-2015 15:19
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Paul1977:
tdgeek:
Paul1977: For those saying you can't compare iPad Pro to Surface Pro 3, I think it is a very relevant comparison.

The iPad Pro is being marketed as as a business device, and more business oriented than the iPad Air 2. To me it seems they are marketing it as more than a tablet.

As stated by others: similar size and weight, similar accessories (pen/pencil, keyboard cover), similar entry level price, marketed at the same segment.

Stating that it's not a fair comparison because one is a hybrid and one is a pure tablet doesn't make the comparison invalid - that is the whole point of the comparison, determining what each can do that the other can't.


So, I can suggest that we also compare an iPad to an HP laptop, and a Macbook

There will be cars with similarities that have totally different capabilities

Business wise, if a company is using Apple's ecosystem, an iPad Pro would fit in there for temporary/partial use, given its integration. Its not like we are talking about running a business using iPads

I feel the capabilities are too far apart to compare


If you are only looking at buying one device, then yes, compare them all and decide what works best.

iPad Air does not have a full OS; but the trade off is that it is a lot smaller, lighter, and easy to use. A lot of the positives of the iPad Air are lost if looking at an iPad Pro.

The argument being made is that, since you are now looking at a device that is as big and heavy as a full hybrid, perhaps the full hybrid is a better choice.


Maybe, but to me, ones a tablet the other is a laptop, that is pretty much it. That the Surface can be a tablet isnt even relevant as the iPad cant be a laptop
If the iPad had OSX or the Surface was only Metro, thats a comparison. Or if the iPad has non lite serious apps, and its tablet OS, or Apple iOS feature lockdowns were mitigated so while its a tablet only OS that doesnt matter, then yes, compare

From a personal side, I find the pro appealing. The 6 Plus is too big and too heavy, but the screen make it worthwhile, thats how I see it for me. Split screen wont be teeny, and streaming TV on a 12.9 will be sweet.

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  # 1385048 10-Sep-2015 15:21
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It is disappointing that apple didn't update the ipad air 2 to the newer processor, and perhaps add 3d touch to it.  Have they also put their price up for the ipad air 2 in NZ? Maybe because NZs dollar has dropped like a stone.
 Also who would buy an ipad pro with just 16GB of storage, and the only other size is the big jump up to 128GB, nothing inbetween. IMO it is far too expensive for what it is. Would possibly make a good drawing tool though with the pen. But i I wasn't sing it for that purpose, and ipad air would be a better choice for me as purely a consumption type tablet. 

 

...  but wasn't it Steve Jobs who ridiculed tablets with pens...or maybe that was just non apple tablets with pens.

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  # 1385050 10-Sep-2015 15:24
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mattwnz: It is disappointing that apple didn't update the ipad air 2 to the newer processor, and perhaps add 3d touch to it.  Have they also put their price up for the ipad air 2 in NZ? Maybe because NZs dollar has dropped like a stone.
 Also who would buy an ipad pro with just 16GB of storage, and the only other size is the big jump up to 128GB, nothing inbetween. IMO it is far too expensive for what it is. Would possibily make a good drawing tool though with the pen....  but wasn't it Steve Jobs who ridiculed tablets with pens...or maybe that was just non apple tablets with pens.


there is a 64Gb too

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