Will you buy iPhone 7 without the audio jack?

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#1640584 26-Sep-2016 12:27

funny that there are differing reviews on the sound quality on the earpods vs. the old version.

This is however likely when comparing something so subjective.

Unfortunately I have to wait until I can test for myself as my iPhone 7+ Jet Black is lost in cyberspace!

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danza

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Master Geek

#1640683 26-Sep-2016 14:09

dafman:
Yabanize:

Many people have said the new Lightning EarPods sound better than the old 3.5mm ones. (And presumably the AirPods although you can't buy them yet.)

Sound testing has confirmed that the new lightning based wired headphones offer a slightly degraded sound over the previous generation wired earbuds via the 3.5mm jack.

And Bluetooth, currently, does not yet match wired for sound quality (all other things being equal).

Traditionally, when Apple have been pioneers and removed functionality, they had something better to replace it with.

This time, not so.

But, hey, they can up-sell you some fancy looking new earpods or Beats headphones to compensate.

Can you link to the sound testing? Do they have one with the standard audio testing criteria such as frequency response and impedance etc?

Because most of the review for iPhone 7 just mentioned that they sound about the same as the 3.5mm version
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/09/iphone-7-and-7-plus-review-great-annual-upgrades-with-one-major-catch/4/#h3

Also for people who really want some decent sound out of the device, lightning -> decent DAC -> headphone still sounds as good as ever.

alasta

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#1640855 26-Sep-2016 18:08

Comparing the old bundled headphones with the new ones for minute differences in sound quality is pointless because neither of them are suitable for music. The real test is to compare a decent quality pair of 3.5mm headphones, against a similar pair of headphones with a lightning cable and decent inline DAC. My hypothesis is that the latter will be much better when the likes of Bose and Sennheiser start showing an interest in offering lightning cables for their headphones.

dafman

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#1640886 26-Sep-2016 19:30

danza:
dafman:

Yabanize:

Many people have said the new Lightning EarPods sound better than the old 3.5mm ones. (And presumably the AirPods although you can't buy them yet.)

Sound testing has confirmed that the new lightning based wired headphones offer a slightly degraded sound over the previous generation wired earbuds via the 3.5mm jack.

And Bluetooth, currently, does not yet match wired for sound quality (all other things being equal).

Traditionally, when Apple have been pioneers and removed functionality, they had something better to replace it with.

This time, not so.

But, hey, they can up-sell you some fancy looking new earpods or Beats headphones to compensate.

Can you link to the sound testing? Do they have one with the standard audio testing criteria such as frequency response and impedance etc?

Because most of the review for iPhone 7 just mentioned that they sound about the same as the 3.5mm version
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/09/iphone-7-and-7-plus-review-great-annual-upgrades-with-one-major-catch/4/#h3

Also for people who really want some decent sound out of the device, lightning -> decent DAC -> headphone still sounds as good as ever.

I posted a youtube earlier in the thread re the testing, but here's an updated video that follows up on this video: https://youtu.be/3kO1VqxfIeE

So all output via the iPhone 7 lightning port is digital. The Apple-supplied lightning to 3.5mm adapter has an inbuilt DAC, as does the wired lightning buds which testing has shown is slightly sub-optimal to the previous wired buds.

Yes, you can get headphones that have quality inbuilt DACs to do the job, but you have just sunk a small fortune on a flagship phone and now you have to spend significantly more money to get good audio - something, by the way, which Apple have a financial interest in providing for you!

Contrast this this other flagship providers who give you a quality inbuilt DAC for the price of the handset.

I just don't like being treated like a mug with my purchases, so I'll politely turn down Apple's kind offer to spend yet more money (with them) to get a comparable sound to other flagships.

Batman

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#1640901 26-Sep-2016 20:10

You might be stuck with the 6S forever ....

danza

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#1640918 26-Sep-2016 20:45

dafman:

I posted a youtube earlier in the thread re the testing, but here's an updated video that follows up on this video: https://youtu.be/3kO1VqxfIeE

So all output via the iPhone 7 lightning port is digital. The Apple-supplied lightning to 3.5mm adapter has an inbuilt DAC, as does the wired lightning buds which testing has shown is slightly sub-optimal to the previous wired buds.

Yes, you can get headphones that have quality inbuilt DACs to do the job, but you have just sunk a small fortune on a flagship phone and now you have to spend significantly more money to get good audio - something, by the way, which Apple have a financial interest in providing for you!

Contrast this this other flagship providers who give you a quality inbuilt DAC for the price of the handset.

I just don't like being treated like a mug with my purchases, so I'll politely turn down Apple's kind offer to spend yet more money (with them) to get a comparable sound to other flagships.

I saw the video earlier, they said there's pretty much no difference between using the adapter and the regular 3.5mm jack output.

From the earlier video, there's one graph they posted (lol @ watching a 5~10 minutes video for something that can be said with a paragraph of words and a few graphs) the adapter has almost no difference compare to the 3.5mm jack on the 6s, which is pretty good in the first place.

This seem to be just the free adapter that came with the phone, and obviously people using pure digital output through their own DAC would have better quality.

Overall it doesn't seem too bad of a compromise that most people people can enjoy a bigger battery and better water resistant phone, while the few holdouts can still use the adapter for similar quality if they really want the 3.5mm output.

Personally, I can finally stop buying dust plugs to prevent lint from getting trapped in the jack.

dafman

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#1640943 26-Sep-2016 21:48

joker97:

You might be stuck with the 6S forever ....

or buy an android (-;

Batman

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#1640991 26-Sep-2016 22:37

dafman:

joker97:

You might be stuck with the 6S forever ....

or buy an android (-;

I'm with you ... :)

Geektastic

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#1640992 26-Sep-2016 22:40

dafman:

danza:
dafman:

Yabanize:

Many people have said the new Lightning EarPods sound better than the old 3.5mm ones. (And presumably the AirPods although you can't buy them yet.)

Sound testing has confirmed that the new lightning based wired headphones offer a slightly degraded sound over the previous generation wired earbuds via the 3.5mm jack.

And Bluetooth, currently, does not yet match wired for sound quality (all other things being equal).

Traditionally, when Apple have been pioneers and removed functionality, they had something better to replace it with.

This time, not so.

But, hey, they can up-sell you some fancy looking new earpods or Beats headphones to compensate.

Can you link to the sound testing? Do they have one with the standard audio testing criteria such as frequency response and impedance etc?

Because most of the review for iPhone 7 just mentioned that they sound about the same as the 3.5mm version
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/09/iphone-7-and-7-plus-review-great-annual-upgrades-with-one-major-catch/4/#h3

Also for people who really want some decent sound out of the device, lightning -> decent DAC -> headphone still sounds as good as ever.

I posted a youtube earlier in the thread re the testing, but here's an updated video that follows up on this video: https://youtu.be/3kO1VqxfIeE

So all output via the iPhone 7 lightning port is digital. The Apple-supplied lightning to 3.5mm adapter has an inbuilt DAC, as does the wired lightning buds which testing has shown is slightly sub-optimal to the previous wired buds.

Yes, you can get headphones that have quality inbuilt DACs to do the job, but you have just sunk a small fortune on a flagship phone and now you have to spend significantly more money to get good audio - something, by the way, which Apple have a financial interest in providing for you!

Contrast this this other flagship providers who give you a quality inbuilt DAC for the price of the handset.

I just don't like being treated like a mug with my purchases, so I'll politely turn down Apple's kind offer to spend yet more money (with them) to get a comparable sound to other flagships.

However, I suspect Apple are simply going for "good enough" audio, since most people seem to listen on the train, bus etc where the environment would affect perceived quality anyway, unless you were using IEM's or something like that.

Yes there will always be a percentage that won't be happy with the audio (personally I think it's a foolish decision but I am not the one on $1 million a year making them for Apple so what do I know?) and I guess Apple are content to lose those customers.

mattwnz

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#1641005 26-Sep-2016 23:17

danza:
dafman:

I posted a youtube earlier in the thread re the testing, but here's an updated video that follows up on this video: https://youtu.be/3kO1VqxfIeE

So all output via the iPhone 7 lightning port is digital. The Apple-supplied lightning to 3.5mm adapter has an inbuilt DAC, as does the wired lightning buds which testing has shown is slightly sub-optimal to the previous wired buds.

Yes, you can get headphones that have quality inbuilt DACs to do the job, but you have just sunk a small fortune on a flagship phone and now you have to spend significantly more money to get good audio - something, by the way, which Apple have a financial interest in providing for you!

Contrast this this other flagship providers who give you a quality inbuilt DAC for the price of the handset.

I just don't like being treated like a mug with my purchases, so I'll politely turn down Apple's kind offer to spend yet more money (with them) to get a comparable sound to other flagships.

I saw the video earlier, they said there's pretty much no difference between using the adapter and the regular 3.5mm jack output.

From the earlier video, there's one graph they posted (lol @ watching a 5~10 minutes video for something that can be said with a paragraph of words and a few graphs) the adapter has almost no difference compare to the 3.5mm jack on the 6s, which is pretty good in the first place.

This seem to be just the free adapter that came with the phone, and obviously people using pure digital output through their own DAC would have better quality.

Overall it doesn't seem too bad of a compromise that most people people can enjoy a bigger battery and better water resistant phone, while the few holdouts can still use the adapter for similar quality if they really want the 3.5mm output.

Personally, I can finally stop buying dust plugs to prevent lint from getting trapped in the jack.

The removal if the socket did not lead to a larger battery and more space for anything else inside, as has been previously mentioned. It could have been included with the socket without sacrificing any if that. It also won't have made any difference to waterproofing as Samsung phones are rated higher the the iPhone and they have included the socket. The socket can be a water resistant type.

Anyone gave the problem with the hiss? I was speaking to someone who noticed it occurring during a phone call, and the phone got really hot.

danza

112 posts

Master Geek

#1641007 26-Sep-2016 23:31

Geektastic:

However, I suspect Apple are simply going for "good enough" audio, since most people seem to listen on the train, bus etc where the environment would affect perceived quality anyway, unless you were using IEM's or something like that.

Yes there will always be a percentage that won't be happy with the audio (personally I think it's a foolish decision but I am not the one on $1 million a year making them for Apple so what do I know?) and I guess Apple are content to lose those customers.

But there's still the lightning connector for people who wants the best audio quality with a DAC?

There are also good electrostatic earphones that uses lightning connectors
https://www.audeze.com/products/sine-series/isine20-ear-headphone

Basically, the lightning port + external DAC covers people who really cares about quality.
The included adapter covers people who want to use their own headphone/earphones and want better quality stuff than most bluetooth headphones.
The included lightning earpods or just bluetooth covers people who doesn't care as much.

And everyone get to enjoy the bigger battery and water resistance of the device.

Batman

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#1641010 26-Sep-2016 23:47

danza:
Geektastic:

However, I suspect Apple are simply going for "good enough" audio, since most people seem to listen on the train, bus etc where the environment would affect perceived quality anyway, unless you were using IEM's or something like that.

Yes there will always be a percentage that won't be happy with the audio (personally I think it's a foolish decision but I am not the one on $1 million a year making them for Apple so what do I know?) and I guess Apple are content to lose those customers.

But there's still the lightning connector for people who wants the best audio quality with a DAC?

There are also good electrostatic earphones that uses lightning connectors
https://www.audeze.com/products/sine-series/isine20-ear-headphone

Basically, the lightning port + external DAC covers people who really cares about quality.
The included adapter covers people who want to use their own headphone/earphones and want better quality stuff than most bluetooth headphones.
The included lightning earpods or just bluetooth covers people who doesn't care as much.

And everyone get to enjoy the bigger battery and water resistance of the device.

Electrostatic noise for US599 eh ... I'd take planar magnetic over that for a few more quid ...

mattwnz

20045 posts

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#1641012 27-Sep-2016 00:11

danza:
The included adapter covers people who want to use their own headphone/earphones and want better quality stuff than most bluetooth headphones.
The included lightning earpods or just bluetooth covers people who doesn't care as much.

Notice however that apple don't want the ugly dongle attachment, to be attached their own headphones, so they made sure their ones come with the lightning plug. The fact that you can't use lightning earphones on any other devices, as no other devices have lightning ports, is going back in time when phone manufacturers used to have their own proprietary connectors. I believe one reason phone manufacturers adopted a standard fitting eg. f, was to reduce waste and all the proprietary parts ending up in landfills, when they could be reused..

davidcole

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#1641029 27-Sep-2016 07:24

alasta:

Comparing the old bundled headphones with the new ones for minute differences in sound quality is pointless because neither of them are suitable for music. The real test is to compare a decent quality pair of 3.5mm headphones, against a similar pair of headphones with a lightning cable and decent inline DAC. My hypothesis is that the latter will be much better when the likes of Bose and Sennheiser start showing an interest in offering lightning cables for their headphones.

But why would they only cater for one segment of the market - or do you think apple fans are loud enough to demand the headphone manufacturers make a special pair for them, and screw what android does (or doesn't) do.

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tdgeek

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#1641032 27-Sep-2016 07:33

davidcole:

alasta:

Comparing the old bundled headphones with the new ones for minute differences in sound quality is pointless because neither of them are suitable for music. The real test is to compare a decent quality pair of 3.5mm headphones, against a similar pair of headphones with a lightning cable and decent inline DAC. My hypothesis is that the latter will be much better when the likes of Bose and Sennheiser start showing an interest in offering lightning cables for their headphones.

But why would they only cater for one segment of the market - or do you think apple fans are loud enough to demand the headphone manufacturers make a special pair for them, and screw what android does (or doesn't) do.

I'd say both camps are large enough to do just that

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