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  Reply # 1630388 14-Sep-2016 17:06
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To be honest, I can't imagine the sound quality from a phone being so good that it bothered me that much beyond a certain point.

 

I have a Metrum Acoustics DAC and headphone amp pair, connected optically to my iMac and Mr Speakers Alpha Dogs to plug into that lot if headphone Nirvana is what I require.

 

My phone just fills in with reasonable music quality and portability on the road etc.

 

Personally I find it an odd (rather than 'courageous'!) decision to dump a connector that just about every person using your device makes use of, simply to make your phone some irrelevant amount thinner.

 

I guess it will play out well for Apple as these things usually do, and the phone is nice by all accounts, but it still seems odd to me.






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  Reply # 1630422 14-Sep-2016 18:11
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Geektastic:

 

To be honest, I can't imagine the sound quality from a phone being so good that it bothered me that much beyond a certain point.

 

I have a Metrum Acoustics DAC and headphone amp pair, connected optically to my iMac and Mr Speakers Alpha Dogs to plug into that lot if headphone Nirvana is what I require.

 

My phone just fills in with reasonable music quality and portability on the road etc.

 

Personally I find it an odd (rather than 'courageous'!) decision to dump a connector that just about every person using your device makes use of, simply to make your phone some irrelevant amount thinner.

 

I guess it will play out well for Apple as these things usually do, and the phone is nice by all accounts, but it still seems odd to me.

 

 

 

 

The sound quality should be pretty decent, the iphone  did evolve from the ipod, which was primarily a music player, and ipods have always rated well for sound. Apple dislikes universal ports, they far prefer to use their own proprietary ones. It gives them far more control over their ecosystem. It is why the lightning headphones didn't have a 3.5 plug, even though their included an adapter to allow this. It also means that the earphones can't be used on other devices, apple can control that. I also can't see other devices adopting the lightning port, and apple will never adopt the USB port that other devices use instead. Not sure how it will play out, but the iphone 7 is a transition device. They didn't want the iphone 8 to be the one that removed it, seeing it will be the brand new 10th anniversary model, so they don't want any controversy with that new model. Far better to do that on this model, so if they were heading that way, this was the model to remove it on.

 

What I do find really odd about this model though, and why I think they really needed to create a new outer casing design, was the new stereo speaker setup. One has the sound coming out the side/bottom of the phone as usual, while the other speaker is the earphone speaker on the front. I can see that being less than ideal soundwise, and almost like an after thought. It is like someone thought, hey, and earphone is a speaker, why not turn that into a bigger speaker to create a stereo effect.  The speakers really should be in the same location on both sides.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1630446 14-Sep-2016 19:08
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mattwnz:

 

Geektastic:

 

To be honest, I can't imagine the sound quality from a phone being so good that it bothered me that much beyond a certain point.

 

I have a Metrum Acoustics DAC and headphone amp pair, connected optically to my iMac and Mr Speakers Alpha Dogs to plug into that lot if headphone Nirvana is what I require.

 

My phone just fills in with reasonable music quality and portability on the road etc.

 

Personally I find it an odd (rather than 'courageous'!) decision to dump a connector that just about every person using your device makes use of, simply to make your phone some irrelevant amount thinner.

 

I guess it will play out well for Apple as these things usually do, and the phone is nice by all accounts, but it still seems odd to me.

 

 

 

 

The sound quality should be pretty decent, the iphone  did evolve from the ipod, which was primarily a music player, and ipods have always rated well for sound. Apple dislikes universal ports, they far prefer to use their own proprietary ones. It gives them far more control over their ecosystem. It is why the lightning headphones didn't have a 3.5 plug, even though their included an adapter to allow this. It also means that the earphones can't be used on other devices, apple can control that. I also can't see other devices adopting the lightning port, and apple will never adopt the USB port that other devices use instead. Not sure how it will play out, but the iphone 7 is a transition device. They didn't want the iphone 8 to be the one that removed it, seeing it will be the brand new 10th anniversary model, so they don't want any controversy with that new model. Far better to do that on this model, so if they were heading that way, this was the model to remove it on.

 

What I do find really odd about this model though, and why I think they really needed to create a new outer casing design, was the new stereo speaker setup. One has the sound coming out the side/bottom of the phone as usual, while the other speaker is the earphone speaker on the front. I can see that being less than ideal soundwise, and almost like an after thought. It is like someone thought, hey, and earphone is a speaker, why not turn that into a bigger speaker to create a stereo effect.  The speakers really should be in the same location on both sides.

 

 

They really have two proprietary ports:

 

  • Lightning (iPhone and iPad)
  • MagSafe (Charging MacBook Pro and MacBook Air)

The other ports they use, Thunderbolt, USB, USB-C, HDMI are all standards

 

All laptop manufactures have their own charger so I don't see MagSafe as an issue,

 

Lightning well, I think they made that because they wanted something better than MicroUSB, eg its reversible, plus also I found this:

 

https://techpinions.com/why-apple-couldnt-go-to-micro-usb-charging/10212

 

Remember, Samsung tablets used to use a proprietary connector too, i'm not sure if this was the reason.

 

Now USB-C is here it could be a different story, but i'm not sure they want to put everyone through a connection change again


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  Reply # 1630475 14-Sep-2016 20:15
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shk292:

 

wscalioni:

 

 

 

Nope. That's just denial.

 

Progress is to have digital audio available and manufacturers offering Android and iOS versions of their headphones just like they do with their current (3.5mm jack) models. The beauty of competition. 

 

 

So, we should spend several hundred bucks on a nice set of headphones and then throw them away if we change between iOS and Android.  Perhaps a third standard for Windows?  And then carry another set to use on the plane, which has an analogue interface.  It's almost like Apple want to lock you into their proprietary "standard", but I find that hard to believe /sarc

 

There's also the small matter of DRM - impossible to enforce when an analogue interface exists, but somewhat more feasible once we've all switched to proprietary digital interfaces

 

 

Where does the several hundred bucks come from? You mean the Apple wireless buds. Its several its NZ$269. And there are or will be any amount of cheaper ones


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  Reply # 1630658 15-Sep-2016 09:17
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geocom:

 

wscalioni:

 

 

 

True, and it took about 5 years until we see Thunderbolt in PC's.

 

True again, and what's your point? It was never available in PC's.

 

 

It never took 5 years I have a pc at the moment that is about 3 years old that includes it and I did not adopt it early.

 

Firewire was I had PC's that with PCI cards in them and even some motherboards that included a Firewire port.

 

So your examples to do with hardware they in no way show that apple where trying to lock people in. If you where to give a valid example of apple choosing a propriety connector then maybe. MagSafe or 30Pin for example but its such a weak way of showing it as even a barrel plug has so many different possible voltages that could be run through it that you really need to match a power supply to your computer anyway. and every 30pin device had a 3.5mm plug

 

 

Being technically available doesn't mean wide adoption. When Apple adopted Thunderbolt, it took a long time to see Thunderbolt widely available in PC's. Still today, not every PC comes with Thunderbolt, but every Mac does. Same (or worse) with Firewire, it was somehow available, but we know that basically because we are in a forum called Geekzone, it has never been an option for the average user. We can have a very technical view about it - as you were - or we can have a broad view of how average users perceive those technologies, and the second is usually what determines how the market behaves. 

 

Anyway I agree, MagSafe and 30pin (and lightning) are good lock-in examples, although a bit less relevant since there are no external hard drives, for instance, that depend on those connectors. They are "self-contained" in the Apple ecosystem and other devices will hardly be affected by them, as opposed to the 3.5mm jack removal, which "forces" people to buy new headphones immediately. 


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  Reply # 1630678 15-Sep-2016 09:32
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wscalioni:

 

geocom:

 

wscalioni:

 

 

 

True, and it took about 5 years until we see Thunderbolt in PC's.

 

True again, and what's your point? It was never available in PC's.

 

 

It never took 5 years I have a pc at the moment that is about 3 years old that includes it and I did not adopt it early.

 

Firewire was I had PC's that with PCI cards in them and even some motherboards that included a Firewire port.

 

So your examples to do with hardware they in no way show that apple where trying to lock people in. If you where to give a valid example of apple choosing a propriety connector then maybe. MagSafe or 30Pin for example but its such a weak way of showing it as even a barrel plug has so many different possible voltages that could be run through it that you really need to match a power supply to your computer anyway. and every 30pin device had a 3.5mm plug

 

 

Being technically available doesn't mean wide adoption. When Apple adopted Thunderbolt, it took a long time to see Thunderbolt widely available in PC's. Still today, not every PC comes with Thunderbolt, but every Mac does. Same (or worse) with Firewire, it was somehow available, but we know that basically because we are in a forum called Geekzone, it has never been an option for the average user. We can have a very technical view about it - as you were - or we can have a broad view of how average users perceive those technologies, and the second is usually what determines how the market behaves. 

 

Anyway I agree, MagSafe and 30pin (and lightning) are good lock-in examples, although a bit less relevant since there are no external hard drives, for instance, that depend on those connectors. They are "self-contained" in the Apple ecosystem and other devices will hardly be affected by them, as opposed to the 3.5mm jack removal, which "forces" people to buy new headphones immediately. 

 

 

No it doesnt.


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  Reply # 1630729 15-Sep-2016 09:58
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wscalioni:

 

geocom:

 

wscalioni:

 

 

 

True, and it took about 5 years until we see Thunderbolt in PC's.

 

True again, and what's your point? It was never available in PC's.

 

 

It never took 5 years I have a pc at the moment that is about 3 years old that includes it and I did not adopt it early.

 

Firewire was I had PC's that with PCI cards in them and even some motherboards that included a Firewire port.

 

So your examples to do with hardware they in no way show that apple where trying to lock people in. If you where to give a valid example of apple choosing a propriety connector then maybe. MagSafe or 30Pin for example but its such a weak way of showing it as even a barrel plug has so many different possible voltages that could be run through it that you really need to match a power supply to your computer anyway. and every 30pin device had a 3.5mm plug

 

 

Being technically available doesn't mean wide adoption. When Apple adopted Thunderbolt, it took a long time to see Thunderbolt widely available in PC's. Still today, not every PC comes with Thunderbolt, but every Mac does. Same (or worse) with Firewire, it was somehow available, but we know that basically because we are in a forum called Geekzone, it has never been an option for the average user. We can have a very technical view about it - as you were - or we can have a broad view of how average users perceive those technologies, and the second is usually what determines how the market behaves. 

 

Anyway I agree, MagSafe and 30pin (and lightning) are good lock-in examples, although a bit less relevant since there are no external hard drives, for instance, that depend on those connectors. They are "self-contained" in the Apple ecosystem and other devices will hardly be affected by them, as opposed to the 3.5mm jack removal, which "forces" people to buy new headphones immediately. 

 

 

 

 

MagSafe has always been a brilliant idea and my Surface Pro has a similar concept and presumably the plug for that fits nothing else either - so it's not only an Apple thing.






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  Reply # 1630744 15-Sep-2016 10:20
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wscalioni:

 

Being technically available doesn't mean wide adoption. When Apple adopted Thunderbolt, it took a long time to see Thunderbolt widely available in PC's. Still today, not every PC comes with Thunderbolt, but every Mac does. Same (or worse) with Firewire, it was somehow available, but we know that basically because we are in a forum called Geekzone, it has never been an option for the average user. We can have a very technical view about it - as you were - or we can have a broad view of how average users perceive those technologies, and the second is usually what determines how the market behaves. 

 

Anyway I agree, MagSafe and 30pin (and lightning) are good lock-in examples, although a bit less relevant since there are no external hard drives, for instance, that depend on those connectors. They are "self-contained" in the Apple ecosystem and other devices will hardly be affected by them, as opposed to the 3.5mm jack removal, which "forces" people to buy new headphones immediately. 

 

 

Wide spread adoption does not matter. The fact that other companies can use those plugs and receptacles is. if they chose not to then so be it. Also apple have never forced you to use the thunderbolt connector you can buy a USB adapter if you like and you never have to touch the thunderbolt connector.

 

Apple control the lighting connector. They hold patients on its design and the only way to use it is with Apples blessing. If a android phone manufacture wanted to design a phone with a lightning connector Apple is highly unlikely to say yes. And that is the important part.

 

Apple know how to design standards they have done it throughout their history lightening is not a standard it is a locked down port that apple want to control. At no point in there recent history have they designed a device with only one port that is locked down to only them.

 

That is the difference.





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  Reply # 1630747 15-Sep-2016 10:22
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mattwnz:

 

dafman:

 

Is this progress?

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt you will need to do that with the iphone 8, as it will likely have wireless charging. But that will need to be the setup in many cars that need to use audio out with the 7.

 

I got an email from sony playing on the fact that the iphone 7 has no headphone jack, and it showed all their bluetooth earphones. But they are pricey. I don't pay more than $50 for earphones, (current ones are sony and they are the best I have ever had), but they only last about 6 months, as they are a consumable. Even some expensive apple one I purchased only lasted 6 month before the rubber on the wires went sticky. When you are paying close to $300 for a reasonable pair, they should last many years, but I can't see them lasting that long. Will be interesting to see how people get on with them.

 

 

 

 

So if you plug in to a car that has a usb port (other other connector) to lightning/30 pin - will you still have to make the decision between charging and audio - or will these continue to charge and pull audio at the same time?  This is relevant for my situation (no a2dp in the car, can use 3.5mm jack or a 30 pin connector), also for my sister in law who uses a sony "made for iphone" double din unit with a standard usb - lightning cable.

 

 





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  Reply # 1638396 21-Sep-2016 21:22
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Ok, so here's an early review. It ain't better, no matter what spin Apple (or Apple fanboys) put on it.

 

https://youtu.be/Fro0p5MlREk

 

 


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  Reply # 1638697 22-Sep-2016 11:44
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Yes. Ordered.  I've never used the headphones that came with my iPhone 4s. Have been using bluetooth headphones from the iPod days.  Wireless headphones & bluetooth are always improving too.  Wires just get in the way and break constantly.


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  Reply # 1638724 22-Sep-2016 12:45
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tdgeek:

 

Where does the several hundred bucks come from? You mean the Apple wireless buds. Its several its NZ$269. And there are or will be any amount of cheaper ones

 

 

It seems to be the going rate for decent headphones, for those that are into sound quality.

 

Pricespy has about 1800 types of headphones; about 500 are >= $200




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  Reply # 1638947 22-Sep-2016 19:18
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shk292:

 

tdgeek:

 

Where does the several hundred bucks come from? You mean the Apple wireless buds. Its several its NZ$269. And there are or will be any amount of cheaper ones

 

 

It seems to be the going rate for decent headphones, for those that are into sound quality.

 

Pricespy has about 1800 types of headphones; about 500 are >= $200

 

 

Decent? They're the same buds as the free ones - I think you'll find you are paying $269 just to lose the wires.


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  Reply # 1639050 22-Sep-2016 22:00
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dafman:

shk292:


tdgeek:


Where does the several hundred bucks come from? You mean the Apple wireless buds. Its several its NZ$269. And there are or will be any amount of cheaper ones



It seems to be the going rate for decent headphones, for those that are into sound quality.


Pricespy has about 1800 types of headphones; about 500 are >= $200



Decent? They're the same buds as the free ones - I think you'll find you are paying $269 just to lose the wires.



Pretty happy with my $30 ones. And dont care if they're trashed in the rain/sweat from running.




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  Reply # 1639064 22-Sep-2016 22:27
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Just watched the 2 teardowns at ifixit

There is no reason why they couldn't put in a headphone jack. Battery not blocking it as far as i can see.




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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