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JonoNZ
266 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2370392 8-Dec-2019 10:21
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BlinkyBill:

 

JonoNZ:

 

BlinkyBill:

 

The question is “does the phone need to be switched on (and connected)”. My sister hasn’t tested this yet, but the linked page indicates that it does.

 

 

 

 

Only for SMS/MMS and iPhone originated push notifications.

 

 

what about Homekit?

 

 

 

 

That should work.


 
 
 

Shop Mighty Ape for electronics, games, computers books and more (affiliate link).
seoras
90 posts

Master Geek

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  #2370405 8-Dec-2019 10:43
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JonoNZ:

 

BlinkyBill:

 

JonoNZ:

 

BlinkyBill:

 

The question is “does the phone need to be switched on (and connected)”. My sister hasn’t tested this yet, but the linked page indicates that it does.

 

 

 

 

Only for SMS/MMS and iPhone originated push notifications.

 

 

what about Homekit?

 

 

 

 

That should work.

 

 

The iPhone does all the heavy lifting CPU stuff and the watch, for most things, acts as a 2nd screen. For example, I write apps for a living primarily iOS ones, I was looking for APIs in Watch OS to allow me direct access to Bluetooth but it doesn't appear to be available (yet?). This seems to be confirmed by the Remote app on the watch. I discovered that I can't control the Apple TV using it unless the Phone is in range of the ATV and turned on. ATV control works via BT and you'd think it could work without the phone. So not even Apple's own native apps seem to get that privilege. 

 

Therefore I'm not surprised if SMS/MMS and APNs aren't working on the watch if the phone is off or disconnected. Same applies to HomeKit, although HomeKit works using hubs (iPads & ATV) but if the Remote app won't work with ATV without a live phone nearby then I very much doubt HomeKit will. RFID stuff with the Watch and HomeKit should work though. So you should still be able to open doors.

 

I suspect as Watch OS matures, and the Watch CPU gets better over time, more and more autonomy will begin to appear. It reminds me a bit of the iPhone evolution as it was tethered to Macs at first.

 

 


JonoNZ
266 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2370412 8-Dec-2019 11:09
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seoras:

 

JonoNZ:

 

BlinkyBill:

 

JonoNZ:

 

BlinkyBill:

 

The question is “does the phone need to be switched on (and connected)”. My sister hasn’t tested this yet, but the linked page indicates that it does.

 

 

 

 

Only for SMS/MMS and iPhone originated push notifications.

 

 

what about Homekit?

 

 

 

 

That should work.

 

 

The iPhone does all the heavy lifting CPU stuff and the watch, for most things, acts as a 2nd screen. For example, I write apps for a living primarily iOS ones, I was looking for APIs in Watch OS to allow me direct access to Bluetooth but it doesn't appear to be available (yet?). This seems to be confirmed by the Remote app on the watch. I discovered that I can't control the Apple TV using it unless the Phone is in range of the ATV and turned on. ATV control works via BT and you'd think it could work without the phone. So not even Apple's own native apps seem to get that privilege. 

 

Therefore I'm not surprised if SMS/MMS and APNs aren't working on the watch if the phone is off or disconnected. Same applies to HomeKit, although HomeKit works using hubs (iPads & ATV) but if the Remote app won't work with ATV without a live phone nearby then I very much doubt HomeKit will. RFID stuff with the Watch and HomeKit should work though. So you should still be able to open doors.

 

I suspect as Watch OS matures, and the Watch CPU gets better over time, more and more autonomy will begin to appear. It reminds me a bit of the iPhone evolution as it was tethered to Macs at first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you might be referring to some pretty old documentation there.

 

 

 

it's very easy to test -- turn off your iPhone and see what still works with just WiFi on your watch. Moist things do, including HomeKit and many third party apps. Some apps are still using older APIs (like Air NZ) and require phone to be on and in range. Others like my heat pump controller work with my iPhone off.

 

 

 

Apple Watch is increasingly becoming independent, with watchOS 6 you can now update the software directly on the watch and it also has the App Store. It's possible Apple are moving to a time where you might not need an iPhone at all. That would be great for a Kids Edition Apple Watch that would not require giving your kids a phone in order to be able to know where they are and contact them.

 

 




BlinkyBill
1443 posts

Uber Geek
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  #2370421 8-Dec-2019 11:14
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I’m not too interested in wifi. The use-case for cellular is to use cellular to do stuff without having the phone with you. If I only needed wifi, I’d get a wifi-only watch.

 

The question is does the phone need to be turned on and connected in order to use, for example, HomeKit to open my Garage door when I’m outside of wifi range; using cellular?


JonoNZ
266 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2370424 8-Dec-2019 11:26
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BlinkyBill:

 

I’m not too interested in wifi. The use-case for cellular is to use cellular to do stuff without having the phone with you. If I only needed wifi, I’d get a wifi-only watch.

 

The question is does the phone need to be turned on and connected in order to use, for example, HomeKit to open my Garage door when I’m outside of wifi range; using cellular?

 

 

 

 

What works over WiFi will most likely work over cellular because of the architecture of the watch. There is a lot of debate here about what works with the iPhone off, using WiFi helps prove what apps work and what apps rely on the iPhone -- the answer is: not many rely on the phone these days. That is a fact.

 

 

 

Anyway, we'll have cellular on 13/12 and I'll get it activated and report back, but I'm pretty sure nearly everything will work as expected.


seoras
90 posts

Master Geek

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  #2370430 8-Dec-2019 11:38
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JonoNZ:

 

I think you might be referring to some pretty old documentation there.

 

 

Well if you can find the Watch Kit API for the bluetooth stack I'd be very appreciative.

 

If the Watch & Phone can't connect via BT they use WiFi instead. So, for example, I'm in front of the TV but my phone is at the other end of the house and out of BT range. My Watch's Remote app won't work. It's bizarre but I've tested it on Watch OS 6 / iOS13 and verified it.

 

Of course that could be a bug as iOS13/WOS6 has been pretty awful so far for bugs. Looks like a major re-write in Swift happened over the last year and they are still ironing out the bugs caused by it. The Music app on the Watch is very buggy on WO6, anyone else find it less reliable?

 

 

 

 

 

 


JonoNZ
266 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2370437 8-Dec-2019 11:52
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seoras:

 

JonoNZ:

 

I think you might be referring to some pretty old documentation there.

 

 

Well if you can find the Watch Kit API for the bluetooth stack I'd be very appreciative.

 

If the Watch & Phone can't connect via BT they use WiFi instead. So, for example, I'm in front of the TV but my phone is at the other end of the house and out of BT range. My Watch's Remote app won't work. It's bizarre but I've tested it on Watch OS 6 / iOS13 and verified it.

 

Of course that could be a bug as iOS13/WOS6 has been pretty awful so far for bugs. Looks like a major re-write in Swift happened over the last year and they are still ironing out the bugs caused by it. The Music app on the Watch is very buggy on WO6, anyone else find it less reliable?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The remote app does rely on your phone. I can't think of a use case when you'd want to do that over cellular? With respect to the bug you're experiencing at home, that is weird.

 

 

 

Just because a third party developer API doesn't exist doesn't mean Apple isn't using a private API for that functionality.

 

 

 

I just quickly tried a few random apps on my phone, wth iPhone turned off but Apple Watch on WiFi:

 

Find My: Works

 

Apple Music: Works

 

Maps: Works

 

Home: Works

 

Uber: Works

 

Intesishome (Heat Pump Controller): Works

 

Parcel: Works

 

Weber iGrill: Works

 

ICC Cricket: Works

 

Podcasts: Works

 

DoorBird: Works

 

Hello Weather: Works

 

Apple Store App: Works

 

Vert: Works

 

Calcbot: Works

 

Pcalc: Works

 

Alarm.com: Works

 

App Store: Works

 

Walkie Talkie: Works

 

1Password: Works

 

 

 

Yelp: Does not work

 

Air NZ: Does not work

 

Remote: Does not work

 

 

 

 




BlinkyBill
1443 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #2370438 8-Dec-2019 11:52
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JonoNZ:

 

Anyway, we'll have cellular on 13/12 and I'll get it activated and report back, but I'm pretty sure nearly everything will work as expected.

 

 

Thanks!


JonoNZ
266 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2370443 8-Dec-2019 11:57
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seoras:

 

JonoNZ:

 

I think you might be referring to some pretty old documentation there.

 

 

Well if you can find the Watch Kit API for the bluetooth stack I'd be very appreciative.

 

If the Watch & Phone can't connect via BT they use WiFi instead. So, for example, I'm in front of the TV but my phone is at the other end of the house and out of BT range. My Watch's Remote app won't work. It's bizarre but I've tested it on Watch OS 6 / iOS13 and verified it.

 

Of course that could be a bug as iOS13/WOS6 has been pretty awful so far for bugs. Looks like a major re-write in Swift happened over the last year and they are still ironing out the bugs caused by it. The Music app on the Watch is very buggy on WO6, anyone else find it less reliable?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, my point about things having moved on wasn't meant to imply that there is a WatchKit BT API, there probably isn't. But watchOS is far more than a second screen to the iPhone these days. That was true with watchOS 1 though.


seoras
90 posts

Master Geek

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  #2370449 8-Dec-2019 12:04
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JonoNZ:

 

Sorry, my point about things having moved on wasn't meant to imply that there is a WatchKit BT API, there probably isn't. But watchOS is far more than a second screen to the iPhone these days. That was true with watchOS 1 though.

 

 

It wasn't you who I bought my black SS series 4 from on TradeMe recently was it? Trademe handle was "Jono" something... :)

 

Yes, very true. It is becoming less so.

 

One App that I was disappointed in not working autonomously was GoodNature's Chrip because I never carry my phone around my property but I'm always wearing the watch. It disappointing because the watch doesn't pick up stats, via BT, on Chirp traps but not surprising since I can't find a WatchOS BT API. I think if the API was available in-house to Apple developers then the Remote app would work autonomously.

 

 


JonoNZ
266 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2370451 8-Dec-2019 12:05
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seoras:

 

JonoNZ:

 

Sorry, my point about things having moved on wasn't meant to imply that there is a WatchKit BT API, there probably isn't. But watchOS is far more than a second screen to the iPhone these days. That was true with watchOS 1 though.

 

 

It wasn't you who I bought my black SS series 4 from on TradeMe recently was it? Trademe handle was "Jono" something... :)

 

Yes, very true. It is becoming less so.

 

One App that I was disappointed in not working autonomously was GoodNature's Chrip because I never carry my phone around my property but I'm always wearing the watch. It disappointing because the watch doesn't pick up stats, via BT, on Chirp traps but not surprising since I can't find a WatchOS BT API. I think if the API was available in-house to Apple developers then the Remote app would work autonomously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haha, yes that is me! I hope you're enjoying the watch!


seoras
90 posts

Master Geek

ID Verified

  #2370456 8-Dec-2019 12:10
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JonoNZ:

 

seoras:

 

JonoNZ:

 

Sorry, my point about things having moved on wasn't meant to imply that there is a WatchKit BT API, there probably isn't. But watchOS is far more than a second screen to the iPhone these days. That was true with watchOS 1 though.

 

 

It wasn't you who I bought my black SS series 4 from on TradeMe recently was it? Trademe handle was "Jono" something... :)

 

Yes, very true. It is becoming less so.

 

One App that I was disappointed in not working autonomously was GoodNature's Chrip because I never carry my phone around my property but I'm always wearing the watch. It disappointing because the watch doesn't pick up stats, via BT, on Chirp traps but not surprising since I can't find a WatchOS BT API. I think if the API was available in-house to Apple developers then the Remote app would work autonomously.

 

 

Haha, yes that is me! I hope you're enjoying the watch!

 

 

Cool!! :D

 

Yes, love it! Thanks again for the trade. Very happy with it.

 

I bought my first Watch, a SS Series 0, a few years ago 2nd hand on Trademe not because I wanted one, or thought I needed it, but to allow me to do some watch app development. I have a very nice swiss automatic. After wearing it for a few weeks I was completely sold on it and the Swiss watch is in a drawer somewhere gathering dust. The old S0 was getting very very slow but still looked as good a new so I decided to upgrade and get another stainless steel model because they can really take a good beating. Gave the S0 to a mate who's a techie and who I recently persuaded to buy an iPhone (he's a Microsoft man). Think I might have another convert. ;)

 

 

 

 


geekiegeek
2513 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #2372178 11-Dec-2019 08:21
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iOS and watchOS updates are live. Installing now


myopinion
931 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2372197 11-Dec-2019 09:22
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I've updated both and there also was a carrier update. The mobile section of the watch settings now says my spark account is not eligible to enable mobile data. However when I look at my plan on MySpark the My One Number plan has been loaded. I guess we have to wait till Friday.


myopinion
931 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2372563 11-Dec-2019 15:49
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Cool the plan just went live for me!


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