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Reply # 149385 19-Jul-2008 07:51
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allsteve:
freitasm:
JoeBloggs: Interesting, I thought the claim to fame was that the device was so stable and reliable. I suppose it's not better in that regard than any other device.


Seriously, there is no computer that runs with no problems at any point in time. This is no different.

What's different is the ability Apple users have to "let go" some of the problems - the same problems that would make them jump up and down if it was another platform.

Some call it a "Halo Effect"...


Trolling?

OK I'll bite. Yes I'm a Mac fanboy, I switched on Mac OS X Tiger and haven't been back. Before then I have used Windows XP and started out using DOS to Windows 3.1 and the rest of the MS family including SBS etc. Aso I have used Debian for servers and played with Gentoo on the desktop. There is a reason for Apple users ready ability to "let go" of problems. And no it is not called the "Halo Effect" this usually refers to iPods leading consumers onto the Mac platform. No what your refering to is not the "Halo Effect", most would call it "Drinking the Kool-Aid".

The willingness of Apple users to forgive issues is tied to the way the system handles errors, if a function doesn't work, it usually just doesn't work.. no cryptic error no slow down no lost data usually no system crash (when there is it simply restarts) just kaput nada nogo doesn't happen. I can accept that, this is life, life has problems too, some things don't work. On windows I get a slowdown, followed by a cryptic error, then a crash resulting in data loss. In linux who knows, but I know I'll spend the next day/week/month/lifetime on Google trying to figure out just what happened and how to fix it.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the iPhone 2.0 issues, I can't afford to get one thanks to Vodafone.


Got one Mauricio, they cant resist it can they :-) Ok next.....

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Master Geek


  Reply # 149386 19-Jul-2008 07:58
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As a mac fanboy since '89 and an iPhone Developer, I can tell you I'm extremely surprised that Apple released the 2.0 firmware in the state it was in. Seeing all the 2.0 firmware beta's from the start, it's by far the most stable of them, however there are still some major outstanding stability and even api implementation bugs in it.

I'm sure it'll be fixed quickly, but this 2.0 release seemed extremely rushed!

Layton

 
 
 
 


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Reply # 149387 19-Jul-2008 07:59
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Are you serious?

I have a Mac mini here and an iMac Core 2 Duo. And I've seen the OS freeze rock hard - the beach ball. No restart, no nothing. I've seen Mac OS 10.4 go slow as a snail. And I've seen problems when installing Mac OS updates.

You have never seen any problems or read anywhere about problems on Mac OS?

I repeat: there's no perfect OS. It's all programs made by humans, and mistakes will be there.




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Geek


  Reply # 149425 19-Jul-2008 11:21
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freitasm: Are you serious?

I have a Mac mini here and an iMac Core 2 Duo. And I've seen the OS freeze rock hard - the beach ball. No restart, no nothing. I've seen Mac OS 10.4 go slow as a snail. And I've seen problems when installing Mac OS updates.

You have never seen any problems or read anywhere about problems on Mac OS?


Yes, I had a PITA problem with my Aiport occasionally dropping connections which was fixed in a recent software update.
OS X Tiger and Leopard have crashed on me a few times.

I repeat: there's no perfect OS. It's all programs made by humans, and mistakes will be there.


Who are you directing this at? Noone in this thread is suggesting a perfect OS other than you.

394 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 149433 19-Jul-2008 11:45
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when my sms's start loading slow I clear them all out... clear the web cache and history and then its normally swt.

also take note of any apps you have downloaded they can have bad effect on the CPU load..

no code is perfect..

Mind you I'm a trusty gen 1 with 1.1.3 :)




Toys:  iphone 4s; PS3 good times.  13inch macbook pro.   ipad 3. ï£¿ 27inch imac.   airport express & time machine. raspberry-pi running xbmc and a gopro try hard.

T: jptocker@twitter
E: jptocker@gmail.com
www.innocle.co.nz

238 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 149455 19-Jul-2008 14:10
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Windows is everyday life vehicle and Mac is something like exotic car in the TV for most people, people cursing about the car and manufacture when it's not working properly but seldom cursing about stucking second gear on Ferraris or oil leaking engine on Jaguar, because poeple just happy that they could own the car regardless of its inherit defactives.

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Geek


  Reply # 149773 21-Jul-2008 09:27
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Discussion at Apple's own forum...

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1608445&tstart=45

Apple Insider post outlining iPhone 3G issues.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/07/18/iphone_3g_and_2_0_affected_by_buggy_software_sensors_wireless.html

355 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 149814 21-Jul-2008 11:28
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kiwitrc:
allsteve:
freitasm:
JoeBloggs: Interesting, I thought the claim to fame was that the device was so stable and reliable. I suppose it's not better in that regard than any other device.


Seriously, there is no computer that runs with no problems at any point in time. This is no different.

What's different is the ability Apple users have to "let go" some of the problems - the same problems that would make them jump up and down if it was another platform.

Some call it a "Halo Effect"...


Trolling?

OK I'll bite. Yes I'm a Mac fanboy, I switched on Mac OS X Tiger and haven't been back. Before then I have used Windows XP and started out using DOS to Windows 3.1 and the rest of the MS family including SBS etc. Aso I have used Debian for servers and played with Gentoo on the desktop. There is a reason for Apple users ready ability to "let go" of problems. And no it is not called the "Halo Effect" this usually refers to iPods leading consumers onto the Mac platform. No what your refering to is not the "Halo Effect", most would call it "Drinking the Kool-Aid".

The willingness of Apple users to forgive issues is tied to the way the system handles errors, if a function doesn't work, it usually just doesn't work.. no cryptic error no slow down no lost data usually no system crash (when there is it simply restarts) just kaput nada nogo doesn't happen. I can accept that, this is life, life has problems too, some things don't work. On windows I get a slowdown, followed by a cryptic error, then a crash resulting in data loss. In linux who knows, but I know I'll spend the next day/week/month/lifetime on Google trying to figure out just what happened and how to fix it.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the iPhone 2.0 issues, I can't afford to get one thanks to Vodafone.




Got one Mauricio, they cant resist it can they :-) Ok next.....


Quite right mauricio, I had assumed this was the case too. Shin summed it up nicely. I see the X86 architecture (windows/linux) as more configurable and I love to tinker. I can stand nothing worse than being baby'd through my daily computer routine.

On a side note, Vista has been the most stable operating system I've ever used. People curse it but I can leave my PC running for weeks without ever having a problem. It has frozen a few times and crashed but again, that's life - plus I was running multiple apps that may have been using the same memory stacks so it could have been my fault.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 149829 21-Jul-2008 12:01
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I can't comment on the iPhone 3G issues yet, but my original iPhone running 2.0 is also a bit sluggish at times. I've pored over various bits and pieces of code with the developer tools, and as far as I can tell, the sluggishness is an occasional phenomenon stemming from background tasks. This might be worse on the 3G where you have the process assisting the GPS (that's A-GPS) with the almanac tables etc. doing some heavy computation when location services is using the GPS.

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Geek


  Reply # 149873 21-Jul-2008 13:50
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JoeBloggs:Quite right mauricio, I had assumed this was the case too. Shin summed it up nicely. I see the X86 architecture (windows/linux) as more configurable and I love to tinker. I can stand nothing worse than being baby'd through my daily computer routine.


Mac's (read OS X) have run on X86 for years now, also the iPhone is ARM. Mac OS X is built on Unix, if you know what your doing open a terminal window and you'll have far more power than the CLI in XP/Vista. Install the free developer tools and you can be as grownup as you like, or download the Darwin source and have a go at some machine code. Mac will only baby you if you don't know what your talking about.

bleater:I've pored over various bits and pieces of code with the developer tools, and as far as I can tell, the sluggishness is an occasional phenomenon stemming from background tasks. This might be worse on the 3G where you have the process assisting the GPS (that's A-GPS) with the almanac tables etc. doing some heavy computation when location services is using the GPS.


I thought the idea of OS X Mobile was to keep background tasks to a minimum? What tasks are you refering to? No 3rd party app is allowed background threads and GPS should only run when it is called, again not a background task. There is some discussion over on the Apple thread (link above) regarding the internal db's for dictionary or contacts possibly causing problems such as a memory leak. It is also discussed that these lag or sluggish interface issues are to do with Mac OS X Mobile 2.0 not the iPhone 3G, explaining your experences.

56 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 149885 21-Jul-2008 14:12
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allsteve: I thought the idea of OS X Mobile was to keep background tasks to a minimum? What tasks are you refering to? No 3rd party app is allowed background threads and GPS should only run when it is called, again not a background task.

A variety of Apple daemons run on the iPhone, for tasks as various as running the Phone app itself, to housekeeping tasks. Of course, these are all power-managed, and as you pointed out, there are no third-party daemons. Nonetheless third-party apps can cause these daemons to do work, and this consumes CPU. You didn't refer to exactly which apps you were using that lagged, but (e.g.) fetch updates (or push updates for that matter) will run even while interacting with Calendar, Address Book etc. You can examine the process table and CPU usage by using the performance tools included in the iPhone SDK if you're curious.

You can test the effects of network activity etc by performing the same tasks in Airplane mode and comparing the UI responsiveness. This doesn't require any SDK tools.

Performance is a major focus of all the Apple iPhone development, and I'd be surprised if you didn't see some UI sluggishness in a ".0" release which gets fixed with subsequent updates. Again, if you're a developer and keen to improve the state of the OS, you can file bug reports and feature requests on Apple's bug reporter.

189 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 149977 21-Jul-2008 19:16
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As I understood from the developers conference the push service isn't active for 3rd party apps yet? Is it? Futhermore when it does become avaliable it will not launch processes for the exact reasons meantioned, it will simply add 'badges' to your apps icon which it can deal with when it runs... I guess some apps closing will cause memory management deamons to run such as garbage collection but these shouldn't cause long term effects in different apps? Cheers.

Of course all iPhone Developers and related OS X iPhone API details are currently under NDA. ;-)

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 150037 21-Jul-2008 22:10
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Well - no crashes or freezes for me. 
It's working very nicely - and I'm not babying it!


355 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 150720 23-Jul-2008 18:56
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Mac OS X is run on Unix? I have great respect for Unix. Alright, I may download one of those cracked OS X's lurking the internet and try it out myself on dual boot Laughing

238 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 150758 23-Jul-2008 20:42
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JoeBloggs: Mac OS X is run on Unix? I have great respect for Unix. Alright, I may download one of those cracked OS X's lurking the internet and try it out myself on dual boot Laughing

Mac OS X is based on NextStep and BSD I think.
You can find many resources about booting Hakintoshi, try Google it.

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