The cat and mouse game which is Jailbreak.

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frankv

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#2498552 4-Jun-2020 21:21

BlinkyBill:
Intellectual property is ... property. Taking someone's property is ... theft. People steal because they are greedy. Ergo ...

Intellectual property is an artificial legal construct which was created to encourage invention and innovation by rewarding inventors. It's now perverted into a mechanism by which corporations enrich themselves and stifle innovation.

Like the divine right of kings and slavery, it's past it's use-by date.

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Handle9

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#2498559 4-Jun-2020 21:28

dejadeadnz:

Lias:

Hence why I said it's never going to happen because of greed. Personally I find the entire concept of intellectual property absurd, the idea of any entity being able to own an idea is anathema, but I'm in the minority.

Luckily for you, people rarely get to just have IP rights in respect of a mere idea. Copyright, for example, protects your manifestation of ideas. Patents are typically (under NZ law) granted in respect of a new process, invention, or material etc.

It's a good idea not to rant about complicated stuff like IP law and philosophical justifications for IP rights if you don't have at least an elementary grasp of the basics.

IP law, in practice, is pretty widely abused, especially in the US. The patent office there is grossly under resourced and doesn't effectively challenge novelty or prior art due to the sheer volume of applications they get.

In my opinion IP needs to be protected as otherwise there is little justification for investment but the existing structures aren't fit for purpose and are being protected by vested interests.

I spent a fair bit of my early professional life looking at design patents and have a very close friend who is an IP lawyer so I have a fair bit of knowledge in the area.

dejadeadnz

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#2498568 4-Jun-2020 21:52

Sure, I wouldn’t disagree with too much of what you wrote. My response was directed at Lias’ rather absurd claim that people can generally claim some kind of IP law right for merely having an idea. As defective as the legal structure can be, that is not typically the case.

Lias

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#2498643 5-Jun-2020 07:45

dejadeadnz:

Luckily for you, people rarely get to just have IP rights in respect of a mere idea. Copyright, for example, protects your manifestation of ideas. Patents are typically (under NZ law) granted in respect of a new process, invention, or material etc.

It's a good idea not to rant about complicated stuff like IP law and philosophical justifications for IP rights if you don't have at least an elementary grasp of the basics.

Sure, I wouldn’t disagree with too much of what you wrote. My response was directed at Lias’ rather absurd claim that people can generally claim some kind of IP law right for merely having an idea. As defective as the legal structure can be, that is not typically the case.

@dejadeadnz I know we rarely see eye to eye, but can you talk slowly and try and explain :-P. The definition of intellectual property is that it consists of non tangible expressions of creativity, e.g. ideas. I understand, if not agree with, why some people want to monopolize those ideas, but I'm just not seeing how you can claim IP isn't merely ideas.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

BlinkyBill

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#2498684 5-Jun-2020 09:17

frankv:
BlinkyBill:

Intellectual property is ... property. Taking someone's property is ... theft. People steal because they are greedy. Ergo ...

Intellectual property is an artificial legal construct which was created to encourage invention and innovation by rewarding inventors. It's now perverted into a mechanism by which corporations enrich themselves and stifle innovation.

Like the divine right of kings and slavery, it's past it's use-by date.

So how then is invention and innovation to be encouraged, without the protection of a legal construct?

BlinkyBill

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#2498751 5-Jun-2020 09:27

Lias:

@dejadeadnz I know we rarely see eye to eye, but can you talk slowly and try and explain :-P. The definition of intellectual property is that it consists of non tangible expressions of creativity, e.g. ideas. I understand, if not agree with, why some people want to monopolize those ideas, but I'm just not seeing how you can claim IP isn't merely ideas.

’Non-tangible expressions of creativity’ isn’t THE definition of IP (but there is a part of IP that covers non-tangible constructs, such as trademarks and copyrighted works (novels, for example)). IP ALSO incorporates tangible constructs such as inventions and designs.

So if you, Lias, came up with a better mousetrap, worked to perfect your design, bring it to market, and because it’s now the best mousetrap on the planet sells a huge volume - you would be protected from others from stealing your design, manufacturing the same mousetrap but cheaper, and take over your market.

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#2498796 5-Jun-2020 10:15

BlinkyBill:

So how then is invention and innovation to be encouraged, without the protection of a legal construct?

The legal construct exists to protect monetizing invention, not to protect invention. Plenty of people have invented things and not sought to profit from them.

BlinkyBill:

’Non-tangible expressions of creativity’ isn’t THE definition of IP (but there is a part of IP that covers non-tangible constructs, such as trademarks and copyrighted works (novels, for example)). IP ALSO incorporates tangible constructs such as inventions and designs.

So if you, Lias, came up with a better mousetrap, worked to perfect your design, bring it to market, and because it’s now the best mousetrap on the planet sells a huge volume - you would be protected from others from stealing your design, manufacturing the same mousetrap but cheaper, and take over your market.

If it's the best mousetrap on the planet, lets get it into everyone's hands, in my view that benefits mankind society more than me keeping a monopoly on the design and charging a premium for it. If someone else can manufacturer it to the same standards and build quality as I do, but cheaper, then clearly I'm doing it wrong. If someone else wants to manufacture it but with lesser quality, then I should be able to market my premium product based on that, without needing to prevent others from copying it.

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