Technofreak:

 

MaxineN:

 

Oh don't worry. At that point I'll start rolling my own solution for photo back ups and switch over to an end to end encryption messaging(I have the storage at home now! And signal is pretty cool). I am well into the google eco system(not by choice) and I know exactly what they do and what they can look at. If I wanted full on privacy I'd run a pixel and run a much de-googled version of Android.

 

 

 

The main kick that would get me to switch is it literally happening on both my device and servers. 

 

 

 

Like no thanks Apple or Google.

 

 

If you really want to get away from Apple and Google you could try Sailfish OS. Linux based with Terminal functionality. It has some wrinkles but works pretty damn well overall. 

 

And about 8 devices supported....

It's not a viable option for anyone but zealots.

Handle9:

 

And about 8 devices supported....

 

It's not a viable option for anyone but zealots.

 

My post was in reply to a post about running a "degoogled" version of Android, or in other words, most likely, a custom ROM. What I suggested is no different to running a custom Android ROM which is done by a lot of people. Check out XDA developers. I guess this is a foreign concept to anyone operating within the Apple walled garden.

What I suggested certainly won't work for a lot of people but if someone is considering a custom ROM, Sailfish is definitely a viable option.

GSManiac: This has sent alarm bells ringing across the tech world. You really should be worried by the what ifs. You’d be naive not to be

And that is how conspiracy theories start. Like I say, this is nothing new. And I'm also all for privacy too...

GSManiac: This has sent alarm bells ringing across the tech world. You really should be worried by the what ifs. You’d be naive not to be

them bells been ringing for a couple of decades now

Just because "all the other companies do the same thing" does not make it right. Apple has long flown the banner of privacy and for some of us this is simply a breach of a long held trust. 

Nor is it a conspiracy theory to point out the slippery slope of big tech monitoring our content and expressions by using future potentials as exemplars. Such monitoring is a modern day fact, as is the over-reach of various corporate and government actors. 

The fact is, anything we do online is open to scrutiny. 'Privacy' as we've long understood it to mean in the physical world is no longer relevant in the digital world. Big Brother is real, and he is indeed watching. 

ios15 also brings the feature where by iMessages are  scanned by AI  so that if someone under 16 either receives or sends an X rated picture, it will arrive blurred and if the person opens it, it will send an alert to their parent (if they sign up to this feature). Once again it's a slippery slope. The path is paved and who is to say this can't be used for other types of images in future - anti govt protests, riots etc and alert the authorities.

In terms of scanning iCloud for CP content, this does nothing in terms of stopping this content being made in the first place, it won't affect those producing such content, only those viewing it. So how long until Apple announce a feature in the next next iOS that uses AI to scan videos as they're filming in real time under the guise of stopping said content being made. And suddenly there is another "feature" that is open to abuse and expansion over time.

Apple have absolutely shattered their privacy focused image. there is no going back.

I really disagree with the assertion that the panic is unnecessary and that there is misinformation in this thread. 

If this feature works exactly as Apple say it does, and if the extent of it is exactly what Apple says, and if that doesn’t change - then it’s not such a massive deal. But I doubt that very much, and it really leaves the door wide open to a slippery slope  

The core issue with this IMO is not that they scan images you put on iCloud for CSAM. That seems fair enough on the basis you’re uploading content to someone else’s service and servers (as much as my personal preference would probably be that no one do any scanning of any kind). I don’t expect a cloud provider to host CSAM, and it seems reasonable they would take steps to combat that.

The one issue (and difference to other cloud providers) is that they do this on device. Apple have stated this is a privacy feature. My concern with this is that theoretically the same technology could be used for non CSAM, which is potentially problematic.

The other issue is that at this point Apple has stated this scanning is only done on photos that are destined for iCloud - but seeing as they have the tech to scan on device, that could change on a whim or by force, and they could theoretically scan content that stays entirely on your device and is not destined for iCloud.

Those are my two major concerns with this. I don’t think this feature needs to exist - better solution in my opinion is to scan for CSAM once the content hits your cloud. I don’t see a benefit to doing this on device, only a drawback. 

saw someone else elsewhere make this comment -  Everyone is now presumed guilty until Apple scan their phone to prove their innocence. 99.99% of people are having their privacy invaded unnecessarily to combat the actions of the 0.001%

@GSManiac You do understand how neural nets work right? There is no privacy infringement here. This is again an on-device feature. Did you know your photos are already being "scanned" by AI on your device? Did you know that when you search "Cat" in photos and it brings up all your photos with Cats how this works? Scanning is already happening and you're seriously over-reacting. This is expanding on this and I personally think it is a very smart feature.

antonknee:

 

Those are my two major concerns with this. I don’t think this feature needs to exist - better solution in my opinion is to scan for CSAM once the content hits your cloud. I don’t see a benefit to doing this on device, only a drawback.

You're correct, this feature doesn't "need" to exist but there are many perverted people out there. Also, it is done on-device as when it is uploaded to iCloud it is also encrypted (or so they say).

But again this is nothing new. Google do the same thing with Google Photos both on-device if the device supports such a thing and in the cloud and I personally think that Apples implementation is more privacy focused. The problem here is because Apple are doing it, and they've always been privacy focused people are freaking out more.

Again, I don't want to hear the word "slippery slope" as it isn't. Even by using an Apple Product you're using a closed-source operating running on fully custom silicon and I fully bet there are much more serious things to worry about such as NSA Backdoors for example that highly likely exist either in hardware or software. If you're on the internet in any way then pretty-much consider yourself as compromised regardless. This whole thing has been totally blown out of proportion.

You don't get to be as big as FAANG etc without compromising with the US Gov.. 

https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf

FAQ document released today.

michaelmurfy:

You're correct, this feature doesn't "need" to exist but there are many perverted people out there. Also, it is done on-device as when it is uploaded to iCloud it is also encrypted (or so they say).

But again this is nothing new. Google do the same thing with Google Photos both on-device if the device supports such a thing and in the cloud and I personally think that Apples implementation is more privacy focused. The problem here is because Apple are doing it, and they've always been privacy focused people are freaking out more.

Again, I don't want to hear the word "slippery slope" as it isn't. Even by using an Apple Product you're using a closed-source operating running on fully custom silicon and I fully bet there are much more serious things to worry about such as NSA Backdoors for example that highly likely exist either in hardware or software. If you're on the internet in any way then pretty-much consider yourself as compromised regardless. This whole thing has been totally blown out of proportion.

antonknee:

iCloud photos are encrypted but Apple makes it clear they have decryption keys and can access that content.

I don’t see how you can come to the conclusion this is not a slippery slope. I really can’t. CSAM today, photos of tank man the next. Photos today, other content the next. Only photos destined for iCloud today, all photos the next. All it takes is a policy change by Apple or a bit of legal coercion. I understand you may not be concerned about that happening or convinced it would happen - but you’d have to admit it opens the door to the possibility.

Again, not a slippery slope as it is widely known this is happening on basically all platforms unless if you self-host. It is to protect said platforms more than anything.

The what if aspect like you've mentioned above, sure, but you're uploading to a service you don't have control of. Like I've said before, if you upload it then assume anyone can view it. This holds true to any other service (Google Photos, Facebook, Dropbox etc) so why must Apple be any different here?

This is why I believe the tech community is truly overreacting here like they've done multiple times in the past with Apple. Apple have already stipulated it is only photos uploaded to their platform (like you say, potentially for now). If you don't own the source code for the device you're holding then you're not truly in control of it. You also have no idea if there are other backdoors (government, supply chain etc) in any operating system including the privacy-centric "de-googlified" versions of Android etc. We've already seen this before with Anom.

This is a very, very small part and how I see it with my security background - if a device is connected to the internet then treat it as compromised especially when you don't own the source code for it. The only device that is private is a device without any way of communicating to the internet - your smartphone is not this device.

The source of truth is here: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf (as also posted above). If you're freaked out by that thinking it is a slippery slope then you're likely right but this is nothing new as I've said before. You don't know everything about the device your holding and the government is very, very good at spying / tracking people, by having a Smartphone expect to have your privacy breached by things that are much worse...

Do I care? No, I've got a Smartphone, I expect this sort of crap. I've also got all my emails and photos stored on Google's platforms as well as iCloud. But if this helps protect kids or stops criminal activity then go ahead and scan away. I've already had my privacy breached by far worse in owning smartphones in my lifetime.